Diaspora Jews Are More Afraid of Messianic & Karaite Jews Than Israelis

This is just the overall audience from 0:00 to 23:00 by country from today under the "Day" category, which leads me to believe that especially gentile converts to Judaism and fellow American Jews need to relax a little bit.

United States

233

United Kingdom

14

Canada

5

Australia

4

Malta

3

Israel

2

India

2

Switzerland

1

Germany

1

Spain

1

A Roustabout With the Antimissionaries, Which They Started

I personally love when the Antimissionaries prove themselves to be intolerant and incapable of thinking for themselves. After all, the dvarim written down by Paul are fulfilled: "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers." Furthermore, "even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart." I personally have to remind myself that when fellow Jews reject Jesus, they are only hurting themselves and helping-- not hurting-- the supposedly-dreadful missionaries.

One believer had legit concerns about some content in the Jews for Jesus group on Facebook, and so our conversation went like this:

[Believer] There's a lot of junk on this wall. I would like for someone to moderate this group, please.

Nicole Czarnecki But don't worry about it. After all, as I told one Antimissionary, "your intolerance...is astounding and will succeed only in defeating your Antimissionary goals." The Antimissionaries do themselves no good.

[Believer] Thanks, Nicole. I'm not worried about the anti-missionaries... it's the weird posts that are completely off-topic that disturb me. I'm worried about new believers getting confused... but on the selfish side, I do come here for uplift, and the junk bums me out. ( :

Nicole Czarnecki I know what you mean. And there are legalists and conspiracy theorists

 here. I can see why my dad and his parents refuse belief in Yeshua because of them. After all, their parents (both of her parents, one a despicable

 traitor to relatives who died in the Holocaust because of her; and his dad, an Anusi who escaped the pogroms at the age of three years) were Anusim (and

 part of Great-Grandma Gaydos' excuse for betrayal was her Anusitkeit, I suppose. By the way, I'm still working on what Hebrew and Yiddish I was not passed down.).

By the way, I love how the Antimissionaries are so presumptuous and arrogant as to speak to a Kosice Rusnak (which I am) and a cousin of Vilgelm Andrulevich (see JewishGen.org and Ancestry.com), and the granddaughter of a former IRS agent and cousin of an aspiring fashion designer like that. Only one of the introduced connections would defend me, I'm afraid; nonetheless, I am like some of the nevi'im and others in that I have some connections and am not just an ishah shel ha'aretz.

The Antimissionaries Get More Vile Every Day

This probably won't be posted, but I told Skylar Curtis, the antimissionary blogger whose work I take serious issue with, the following: "Were you even born Jewish? If not, knock off the Antimissionarism and let Jews read "A Set Apart Life" and come to their own conclusion about Jesus. As a Jew, I can tell you that you have no place in trying to prevent other Jews from considering the Jewish Jesus of Nazareth if you're not Jewish yourself."

Here's Skylar's vile and hutzpah-laced entry: "Do Not Read the Blog 'A Set Apart Life'"

Here are some of the insidious excerpts, filled with the very things which she labels "A Set Apart Life"'s entries and condemns, with my commentary:

There is a blog out there that you should not read if you are pursuing Jewish conversion or believe in Judaism. It's called A Set Apart Life.

That blog is about messianic Judaism, NOT Judaism. Even though it may have Judaism in the name, messianic Judaism rejects Judaism and uses its rituals and traditions to further their proselytizing at Jews to accept Jesus as savior.

 

Messianic Jews (Jewish Christians) do not reject Judaism. In fact, we simply believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Beginning and End of Judaism and Jewishness (which is a long discussion, and probably one which you may have had before).

 

I purposely posted that "hot-button" post so that it would show on her blog's page and bring this idea to her reader's attentions. I am offended by this blog, and I am even more offended that my blog is being used to bolster her own credibility among Jewish conversion candidates.

 

Maybe I'm reading Nehemia Gordon (a Non-Messianic Karaite) wrong, but I believe that even he's implied that P'rushim ("rabbi"nates)-- at least like Skylar Curtis-- don't want people thinking for themselves. Instead of Skylar being so offended, perhaps she ought to (so to speak and as would be the case in her eyes) encourage people to know what the "enemy" (the dreaded Missionary) is saying.

 

In other words, this blogger is a wolf in sheep's clothing. If you come from an evangelical background, you can catch the otherwise innocuous (if strange to Jewish ears) phrases she uses that refer to very specific Christian ideas, such as "stay at home daughter."

 

There are many stay-at-home daughters, wives, and mothers-- in fact, many who aren't allowed to leave home-- in Judaism, especially in the shtetlach such as Crown Heights and Northwest Baltimore.

 

Messianic Jews...if we want to talk to you about your faith, we will find you. Stop tricking us into listening to you by acting like you are imparting Jewish ideas so that you can spring your agenda on us at a later time. That is just plain insidious, unethical, and creepy. And it certainly violates the way Hashem wants us to live our lives.

 

We're following the Great Commission and the Light to the Nations. What about you, Ms. Curtis? Also, we're not forcing ourselves on you (We allow you to "choose this day who you will serve."). Also, we use TaNaKh to support our ideas. And what about you? Is your faith so weak that you have to rely on fallible "rabbis" and not TaNaKh itself? And to Nehemia Gordon's and other Non-Messianic Karaites' credits, they do rely on TaNaKh to believe in what they believe in and why they believe in it.

This is Delegate Steve DeBoy (D)'s Cousin Nicole Writing..

I'm not just criticizing CNN, MSNBC, etc. for the fun of it. I come from a predominately-Jewish-Democrat & Irish-Catholic-Democrat, now somewhat-mixed Far-Left and Far-Right family with some leaning right, left, and right and left (that is, in the middle). I used to watch CNN until February 1, 2003 (about the or maybe even the last time that I watched it-- at least consistently).

I'm from liberal Baltoannapolis (Baltimore-Annapolis Metro Area). I have a meshuga twin who idolizes Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-MN) and Ex-Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK). I am the granddaughter of one of three now-former IRS Agents who served tax papers to Nixon-- John "Jack" Czarnecki, who's a Democrat and whose mother was a Clinton Democrat (and the Polish-Slovakian gentile Catholic who my Crypto-Jewish great-great-grandmother Alexandria Czarnecki hated). I am a cousin of Maryland State Delegate Steve DeBoy (D), from the illustrious and darned-right-Democrat Farrell-DeBoy line (who include actors Paul and P.J. DeBoy). I am also a second cousin of a Far-Left Jewish Taoist. I am furthermore a niece and the goddaughter of a consultant for and adviser to Governor Martin O'Malley.

So, I am not a Far-Right ideologue who's merely shilling for FOX News-- I've lived being on the Left (somewhat, anyway, since my mom shifted to the Right by the time that I was born; but I pointed to quite a bit of the rest of my family and my family history, anyway), and I've lived watching unfair-and-unbalanced news.

"A Traitor Is A Still a Traitor" Continued

So a friend and I were talking about Nana Allen being a Sefardi'ah Yehudi'ah (which I've seen too much evidence of to think that she's just a Catolica Espanola y Irelandesa), and we got to talking about the Rusnaks et. al. again:

[Friend] Because that was the tendency of our forefathers covering what was our roots... I'm sorry about your Ta(Dad)

58 minutes ago ·

Nicole Czarnecki

I am, too. He is missing such a rich part of our history. Meanwhile; one memory that'll always stick out to me: I was learning about the Shoah and
said something in a moment of OCD/Anxiety panic. To attempt to assuage my fear and quiet me..., my dad deliberately drew a swastika on a piece of paper just
to throw the paper in the fireplace. Little did I know:

1) he has OCD/Anxiety.

2) Great-Grandma Gaydos is lucky that she died in 1992. Had I known that
the supposedly-sweet woman who died when I was two was a traitor back to her relatives in Europe.... and especially if she were still alive (She'd be
104 this year; and she could've lived into her 90s and 100s if she'd wanted to); I'd've told her one or another thing. I didn't realize that Dad was
that angry at Great-Grandma.. though I sure don't blame him. And I think that Great-Granddad may've been trying to get back at his wife, too, when he
said that "We're Russian." Meanwhile; Great-Granddad's mom was a Uszinsky; and Great-Grandma's dad was of the Kosice, Slovakia Rusnaks (who've include Zionist Conference member Yoshua Rusnak), and her mom of Anusi Foskos (long story) and Hanzoks (Hanssaks) (who became Anusim perhaps later than I'd originally thought. They didn't flee Hungary until the Middle 1800s for Slovakia-- which was a relatively-more pro-Jewish part of Austria Hungary back then; and there are still Hanzoks in Hungary-- beats me why.)....

[Friend] you really have a rich history... And i know THE LORD preserved the Hanzoks in Hungary... And the Belskie are from Hungary, no? Have you seen the movie Defiance?

36 minutes ago ·

Nicole Czarnecki

I know of no relation to the Belskies that I have, but I know that the
Foczkos fled from Hungary by 1776. The first baptism records for them are from Slovakia from 1776-- were they Catholic originally and not Anusim, the
records would've g...one to Slovakia from Hungary. They didn't.

Also, "Maria" and variants thereof were actually surprisingly common in Ashkenazic Jewish communities in Eastern Europe; but Aunt Mary was named for both her grandmothers (and Great-Great-Grandma Alexandria Andrulewicz
Czarnecki would've been sick to know that her son Antoni had a granddaughter named for his "shiksa" wife-- she HATED her!), and the Foczkos (Foskos) have few "Marias", etc. among them. Great-Grandma was named "Marysia" for her grandmother Marysia "Maria" Novakova Rusnakova, by the way.

Maria Novakova Rusnakova was part of the first Novak and Rusnak Anusim--
and that's part of what made Great-Grandma's betrayal of the Rusnaks during the Shoah sicker! Grandma and Grandaunt Mary Ann still try to pass off that the Rusnaks wrote her to ask for money when they were really asking for
help! But they're not 12 and 7 anymore!

They can admit what their beloved mom did! They know that I'm not stupid or
ignorant of Great-Grandma's stopping to write to them; and she lost the opportunity to preach the Gospel, if nothing else, because she refused to
help them! I myself'd've said, "Screw FDR and Isolationist Policy." But she basically said that'd she'd rather screw justice and the name of Jesus-- and you can only imagine how they further saw us as Anusi-masked traitors, and Self-Hating-Jewish pogromists and crusaders who would give our relatives
even up to the Nazis!

Meanwhile, a Rusnak who did survive-- Tibor Geza-- became Roman Catholic (probably to be an Anusi in America), went to Ohio, never talked to us, and had himself cremated when he died in 2006. I found out all this through family research and other things, by the way.

By the way, Janet; that times were different then doesn't matter. I'll always be braver than you (I think, or at least until you can admit that your and Dad's beloved Grandma Gaydos was a coward and true koferah el Yeshua v'Aminu). And I wonder what September 22, 1992 at the Judgement was like for Great-Grandma.

 

Forget the Elitism Against Gwyneth Paltrow Martin and The Paltrow-Martin Children...

If there is ever a Jewish Elitism; the Jewish Elitism is in especially the unprovoked and opportunistic persecutions of Messianic Jews (Jewish Christians), as Nate Goldstein and Shani prove to anyone who's paying attention (perhaps including Ilana Angel):

Her kids are not not Jewish so your article is moot.

Though your article us useful to identify you as a lowly sycophant.



Comment by Dexter on 7/25/11 at 4:59 pm

Well Gwyneth Paltrow’s Jewish father probably qualifies her to be Jewish under Reform’s standards, so there’s no particular reason she can’t raise her kids in that denomination.



Comment by dee on 7/25/11 at 6:50 pm

I think it’s great that Paltrow has stated publicly that she’s raising her children in the Jewish faith. I’m not quite sure how that works, considering neither she, nor her mother, nor her husband are Jewish…but, at least she brings publicity for the countless benefits and rewards of Jewish life…I wonder why Paltrow hasn’t converted herself, considering she obviously values a Jewish upbringing above all others?



Comment by Shani on 7/25/11 at 8:24 pm

By reform standards she can raise both her kids Jewish. But I think what she is referring to is their cultural heritage and ethnicity and not their religious affinity. In any case, many people are discovering their Jewish roots and choosing to re-acquire that heritage. All the more power to them. In the long run of course, it will be up to her children and not her to ultimately decide the extent of their own Jewishness. You said, “The Jewish population is getting smaller”. Perhaps one of the main causes of this is Jews who discourage the ownership of one’s own heritage because they don’t fit their narrow elitist definition of “who’s a Jew”.



Comment by Mashiach on 7/26/11 at 7:42 am

“I’m not quite sure how that works, considering neither she, nor her mother, nor her husband are Jewish”. That’s hilarious and quite accurate. She might as well announce that she is raising her kids Eskimo. Although it would be smarter to raise them as Navajos and get them a piece of that casino income.



If you are Orthodox then being Jewish is both a religion and a nationality. If you are a Zionist it is not a religion, and if you are a Reform Jew it is not a nationality, but until now we have had no category for ‘none of the above’.



Comment by Ben Plonie on 7/26/11 at 2:42 pm

This seems kind of odd in light of her husband’s support of the Palestinians. Do a search on Chris Martin and Palestine.



Comment by Jason on 7/27/11 at 7:16 pm

I just did. Not to judge a book by its cover, but he looks like a moron. As for G.P.‘s intention; depending on your POV being Jewish has nothing to do with family, God, Israel, history, sprituality, religion, politics, self interest, self determination, ritual, practices, disciplines or a given culture. It is entirely subjective and inconsistent between individuals, and who is qualified to say which is right and what is real? This is how you get ‘rabbis’ for Palestine and all that. Today it has become a good deed for some to support Israel’s enemies and undermine Israel. These are people so removed from reality that the are not capable of considering the source of those ideas.



Comment by Ben Plonie on 7/28/11 at 7:51 pm

The Jewish people are an ethnic group first, and being Jewish comes from either one or both of the sides—ignore Kiddushin 68b, and focus on D’varim 7:1-5 for itself. In light of D’varim 7:1-5 (among other parshot), I find Gwyneth Paltrow to be a Self-Hating Jew who does no good for ‘ameinu by supporting Pleshet over Yisra’el—what is a Jewish woman doing supporting the remnant of Goliat’s people over the fellow descendants of Ya’akov?



Comment by Nicole Czarnecki on 7/31/11 at 2:43 pm

This whole thing is Bulls—t!!!! If you had a Jewish and a non-Jewish parent usually you grew up favoring one or the other!!!

Whether your mother or father was Jewish is besides the point!!! If you believe you are Jewish and claim to be then you are!!! Bill Maher’s mother was Jewish…he was raised Catholic…he never claimed to be Jewish…he is NOT Jewish!!! Paul Newman’s mother was not Jewish he chose to be Jewish…therefore he was Jewish!!!

Michael Douglas was raised ???...his mother was not Jewish…He always felt Jewish via his dad…He Is Jewish!!!



Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/10/11 at 9:38 am

I remember when Michael Douglas MC’d an Israeli Special Anniversary on TV and said he was proud to be a Jew…later in the newspapers some crazy orthodox rabbi’s claimed he was not Jewish because of his mother…Michael was incensed claiming who were those nuts to tell him what he was or wasn’t??? Sarah Michelle Gellar & Julia Louis Dreyfus both deny being Jewish…srew ‘em…so be it!!! Michael Richards, neither parent Jewish, believes he is Jewish…says he always felt Jewish…What do we do with him???



Comment by Marty Stone on 8/10/11 at 9:50 am

To be a Jew is to be a citizen of the Israelite nation. We have a federal nation and the tribes are our states.



1) A child of two Jewish parents is a citizen of Israel and with inheritance rights in its father’s state.

2) A child of a Jewish father only is not a citizen of Israel.

3) A child of a Jewish mother only is a citizen of Israel but a citizen of no state, with no land rights.

4) A naturalized citizen (convert) is comparable to one with no Jewish father.



The law is the law and it doesn’t matter how we feel about it. The law is never going away.



Comment by Ben Plonie on 8/10/11 at 9:30 pm

Today the Indians have casinos and each Indian receives a share of the casino income. Anyone who is not a lawful Jew but insists he or she is one can try to claim to be a Cherokee and demand some of the casino income.



Comment by Ben Plonie on 8/10/11 at 9:31 pm

...More BS…More BS…if you left it up to the hypocritical orthodox Jews there would be NO Israel!!! How dare they refuse to accept someone as a Jew if they want to be one merely because their mother is a non Jew!!! We can’t afford to throw away our “Lantzmann” like that and survive. My family is secular, yet we follow all the holidays, our kids married Jews and we have been told that we are the most “Culturally Jewish” people any of our friends know!!! Let your local Chabbad fight us over whether we are Jews just because we don’t go to Temple.



Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/10/11 at 11:20 pm

Meanwhile, a now-former friend of mine who’s a kohein (as my sister told me) thinks that Judaism is meshuga, although he loves being Jewish and supports Israel—and he’s very Far Left! As Nate Goldstein noted, “Let your local Chabbad fight us over whether we are Jews just because we don’t go to Temple.” In fact, isn’t that why many of us don’t even go to Temple or any shul of any sort? Granted that I’m a Messianic Jew, but that’s actually another thing as well—why can’t Jews believe in Jesus (Yeshua) if we can believe in Bar Kochva, Menachem Schneerson, or whoever else one could name?



Comment by Nicole Czarnecki on 8/10/11 at 11:31 pm

Hey Nicole…you lost me with…“I’m a Messianic Jew”!!! We can’t believe in jesus because he turned left while the rest of us were going right!!!



Jews for Jesus are christians…very simple!!!

Jesus was a Jew who was searching…his followers decided he was the deity!!!

In their misguided faith in their new religion the christ followers decided to “murder off” the competition…I give you the inquisition, the pogroms, the holocaust, etc.all!!!



Because of that history…switching sides, as you did, and trying to take others of us with you becomes the ultimate blasphemy and indignity towards those LOST millions of our bretheren!!!



Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/11/11 at 10:17 am

Nate, I wasn’t here to proselytize but to give an example re your point. You sadly made your own point: “...More BS…More BS…if you left it up to the hypocritical orthodox Jews there would be NO Israel!!!” and “Let your local Chabbad fight us over whether we are Jews just because we don’t go to Temple.” You are more fit to join a haredi (“Chabad”) movement than you would like to claim.



Comment by Nicole Czarnecki on 8/11/11 at 11:08 pm

Nicole:

nah…you’re wrong…we are basicly agnostic/secularists. HOWEVER…we are very strongly Jewish culturists!!!....we won’t go to temple…but we’ve been to Israel 3 times…and support them AS MUCH AS Possible!!!...also we just about “Kvell” when we pass by the ultra orthodox with the remnents of their Russian black garb walking with their familys on Pico/Fairfax area….because they are fighting their uphill battle to preserve their faith.



BUT NOW…it’s just because of that Jewish DNA that I possess that I go crazy when I come across messianics and jews for jesus.



Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/12/11 at 12:56 pm

“Jews” for Jesus is the title of a Christian religious organization. It’s not that we “can’t” believe in Jesus (whatever that means),it’s that there is no “Jesus” in Jewish culture, tradition, scripture,or religious practices. When you’re Jewish, temple or not, there is no worldview that encompasses any type of “salvation” because a human allowed himself to be sacrificed as some sort of political statement.



Comment by Shani on 8/12/11 at 4:35 pm

Nate and Shani, you two are proving that many Jews are way too elitist against fellow Jews. Also, I already clarified that I’m not here to proselytize. So, knock off your Anti Missionarism.



Comment by Nicole Czarnecki on 8/12/11 at 4:43 pm

Why would I “knock off” being against missionizing? In any case, you can missionize to your heart’s content,but if you think such an action is culturally,socially,politically,religiously, or traditionally Jewish, you are wrong. Missionizing or suggesting we’re “incomplete”, (as many missionaries claim), is elitist.As a Christian, you have to live with the consequences of the choice you made. You cannot expect observant Jews to understand those of you who believe in a life philosophy that encompasses the antithesis of being Jewish.



Comment by Shani on 8/14/11 at 8:59 pm

If you want to be a messianic…go be it!!!...but keep it to yourself!!!



As soon as you try to drag your fellow Jews along you’re nothing better than a turncoat/traitor who’s pissing on the graves of the multi-millions who died rather than give up their spiritual beliefs.



Comment by Nate Goldstein on 8/24/11 at 3:40 pm

Shani, I already stated that I already clarified that I’m not here to proselytize. I simply mentioned that I’m a Messianic Jew to be in full disclosure. As I said, “In fact, isn’t that why many of us don’t even go to Temple or any shul of any sort? Granted that I’m a Messianic Jew, but that’s actually another thing as well—why can’t Jews believe in Jesus (Yeshua) if we can believe in Bar Kochva, Menachem Schneerson, or whoever else one could name?”



What’s elitist is suggesting that I may not believe that Jesus (Yeshua) is the Messiah if another Jew can believe that Bar Kosiva or Menachem Schneerson is Mashiach.



Comment by Nicole Czarnecki on 8/24/11 at 3:41 pm

Nate and Shani, I wasn’t trying to drag anyone along; and I find your attitude unacceptably and intolerably elitist, as I was merely disclosing my Messianic Jewish beliefs in order to explain why I understand why many Jews do not go to shul—because of both intolerance of haredim and frankly because of intolerance such as yours.



Comment by Nickidewbear on 8/24/11 at 4:01 pm

Jews don’t “believe in” Jesus. Period. Christians, and only Christians do. There is a major difference between being fooled/hoping someone is Messiah and believing that a man who died thousands of years ago is G_d. One action is naive, the other goes against the soul.



Comment by Shani on 8/24/11 at 5:14 pm

Perhaps Ilana Angel ought to have chazak v'ematz and write "Are Jews Too Elitist To Accept Jewish Christians [or Messianic Jews, or Jews for Jesus, or followers of Jesus of Nazareth]"?

Is Ilana Angel Elitist? We Know That Haredim Are Elitist; So To Dexter's Point

The Jewish people are an ethnic group first, and being Jewish comes from either one or both of the sides-- ignore Kiddushin 68b, and focus on D'varim 7:1-5 for itself. In light of D'varim 7:1-5 (among other parshot), I find Gwyneth Paltrow to be a Self-Hating Jew who does no good for 'ameinu by supporting Pleshet over Yisra'el-- what is a Jewish woman doing supporting the remnant of Goliat's people over the fellow descendants of Ya'akov?

By the way, Ilana's chutzpah is staggering (and "hutz-pah"; the "c" is silent or not there in the original Hebrew, which is what Yidish messed up. I just wanted to remind Rep. Michele "Party of 'No'" Bachmann as she jeporadizes the US' greatest ally by voting "No" on even the McConnell Compromise-- how'd the Reid and $2.8-T ones work, Rep. Bachmann?).