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Showing posts with label Eastern_Europe. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Eastern_Europe. Show all posts

Monday, February 20, 2017

A Massacre In Sweden Really Did Occur, As It Happened In Bowling Green. Guess Who Really Caused It?


  1. Tr*** himself—bowling over massacring any liberty and freedom is dangerously making people 🤢.
  2. Tr***'s offical and unofficial cabinet, including his family.
  3. Tr***ites from Milo to Newt Gingrich.
There are others whom caused Tr***'s Bowling Green Massacre, including pro-Trump and Anti-Zionist Benjamin Netanyahu—Agudat Yisrael's "natural partner". Meanwhile, not just the U.S., Sweden, and Israel are suffering—so are, e.g., Poland, the Ukraine and Crimea, and Slovakia, all of where substantial kehillot still exist. 

Wednesday, December 14, 2016

Did The Far Left & Clinton Desperation Syndrome Crowd Have Their Leftism & Desperation Come Back To Bite Them?

In short, the Far Left and Clinton Desperation Syndrome crowd will have their support of Trump come back to bite them at the Day of Judgement if it will come at no other time—and the rest of us are suffering because of Trump and his modern Eichmanns, Goebbelses, Ribbentrops, and other Nazi equivalents. By the way, Putin as well had better watch out if God doesn't deliver us from Trump—doesn't Putin know about the "Non-Aggression" Pact? After all, Stalin and Molotov—among others—were baited by Far Left—i.e., the Alt Right, Old Right, and 19th Century Right—competition.

Both Stalin and the Nazis were Anti Semites—and both had "Final Solutions"—by the way—the Nazis implemented their "Final Soultion" in 1942, and Stalin implemented his in 1948—of course, the Nazis ended up getting theirs as much as Stalin got his, and as much Haman got his for considering Jews a problem. If anything and if one will, God answered the "Jewish question" by having the Nazis and Stalin answer to Him:


  1. "Now יﬣ׀ﬣ said unto Abram: 'Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee. 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and be thou a blessing. 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse; and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.'"
  2. Just as were Pharaoh and Haman—among other Anti Semites—the Nazis and Stalin were created for destruction: "[']Let My people go, that they may serve Me. 14 For I will this time send all My plagues upon thy person, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like Me in all the earth. 15 Surely now I had put forth My hand, and smitten thee and thy people with pestilence, and thou hadst been cut off from the earth. 16 But in very deed for this cause have I made thee to stand, to show thee My power, and that My name may be declared throughout all the earth. 17 As yet exaltest thou thyself against My people, that thou wilt not let them go?[']"
  3. Pharaoh, Haman, the Nazis, and Stalin all thought that they had to right to question Yehovah. "Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say: 'Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?' 16 O your perversity! Shall the potter be esteemed as clay; that the thing made should say of him that made it: 'He made me not'; or the thing framed say of him that framed it: 'He hath no understanding?'"
  4. No matter how many other nations tried to exalt themselves as the chosen nations or destroy Israel, Jews survived being in Egypt and all the way to enduring the Holocaust—and 1922-1960, since the Holocaust both happened in Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia, is both quite a long time in terms of years and also a short time in which to destroy up to at least 26,000,000 Jewish lives (For Stalin, I once read that the number of Jews murdered was 20 Million.). "8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the children of men, He set the borders of the peoples according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the portion of יﬣ׀ﬣ is His people, Jacob the lot of His inheritance. 10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste, a howling wilderness; He compassed him about, He cared for him, He kept him as the apple of His eye."
I imagine that God must've—since there was no "Jewish question" in the way that Pharaoh, Haman, the Nazis, and Stalin saw it—rhetorically smirked, "Any questions?" After all, while Yehovah does not delight in the death of the wicked (cf. Ezekiel 33), "The Lord doth laugh at him; for He seeth that his day is coming."

Meanwhile, Bill Gates actually made a very-apt comparison between Trump and the late JFK: both are leftists and Nazi sympathizers.

Saturday, November 12, 2016

"Chartreux": So, Why Do Some People—Especially Jewish Ones—Say That Jews Aren't White?

"Chartreux" saw my tweets and others' tweets; he asked, and I answered—and this what I emailed him back—the only changes are editorial, not revisionary, changes:

Jews are considered White only because of a gentile man whom argued that since Jesus was White, he was White. The man in question was set to be deported, and he was George Shishim from Lebanon [correction: Syria]. Unfortunately, many of us joined in, in favor of Shishim ("United States v. Shishim")thus considering ourselves White. Many of us had also been passing as White and/or identifying with any White heritage that we'd had.
This gave the Anti Semites fodder to claim that we who were Ashkenazi Jews were actually Slavic and Khazar converts as opposed to really Middle Eastern Diasporans, and especially those of us in the Reform/Progressive/Liberal tradition had already set ourselves up for eventually being considered White. The Classical Reform position can be summed up in the words of my father: "Judaism is a religion and not a nationality." He was not happy that I found out that we're Jewsdespite that he denies that he even knewand he continues to try to pass as a Polish-Lithuanian-Czechoslovakian and Catholic-turned-Episcopalian-turned-completely-secular American. He would be Modern Reform were he honest with himselfand I actually recommended that to him despite that I am a Jewish Christianhis positions are far from Karaite and Rabbinically-Orthodox Jewish, let alone Christian, and I told him that Reform Judaism would fit him. Quite a few Reform Jews, by the way, still hold the Classical position.

I hope that I gave enough of a clear and thorough explanation. 

PS He is Poylisher, Litvisher, Vaysruslander, Ruslander, Ukrainisher, Slovakisher, and Ungarisher Yiddish with some Sephardish (e.g., Kroatisher) and Mizrachish Yiddish blood. In fact, his paternal grandmother (of blessed memory) is a descendant of the Kroatishe-Ungarishe Legradi mishpoche [one branch of whom were printers and publishers] (One of her matriarchs is Helena Legradi Duday, of blessed), for example. 

Monday, June 6, 2016

A Darker Side Of D-Day

D-Day came too late for many Jews and others whom were trapped in Nazi and Soviet Europe. One of them was one of the Andrulewiczes, Antoni Andrulewicz (חנניה בן יוחנן הכוהן אנדרולוביץ, ז''ל והי''ד). 

According to what Ogrodywspomnien.pl cited, he was "arrested" (read "kidnapped"), "held hostage in the Suwalki prison" for almost three months (March 13-June 6, 1944), and murdered by asphyxiation with other victims of a "mass execution" (read, quite frankly, "mass lynching"), and put into a mass grave at the murder site.



Remember that not all Sho'ah victims fit the profile of the oft-described Sho'ah victim—and certainly, not all lived to be victims whom became liberated survivors. Because he was a ben Anusim, he (like other bnei Anusim in Non-Hispanic Europe) got overlooked (despite that Anusim and bnei Anusim were not only in Iberia and not only during the Spanish Inquisition). Also, an account from another Andrulewicz—Boleslaw Andrulewicz—makes quite clear that the Andrulewiczes were not counted as Poles; and there is no record of any Andrulewicz ever smuggling or helping smuggle papers or ration cards—in fact, one Andrulewicz kept under the radar of the Nazis and the Soviets by moving from parish to parish in Lithuania with constant and seemingly-chaotic movements between 1938 and 1948.

As has been said, ****** didn't care whether Jews were Rabbinical, Karaite, or Non-Rabbinical and Non-Karaite Jews; and many continue to leave millions of those whom were counted for murder out of the count of those whom are to be remembered ("[B]ut for Thy sake are we killed all the day; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."). 

Even 72 years after D-Day, only 6-11 Million victims of the Sho'ah (not counting the gentile ones) are counted and remembered for a blessing; and Stalin, despite that he had his equivalent of a "Final Solution", is remembered as part of the Yalta Three whom led the armed forces that liberated Jews from Auschwitz and other murder ("concentration") camps (and lets be clear: the "concentration" camps were not designed to be anything but murder camps). 

Even 72 years later, then, Israel is still not even remotely close to liberated from the Nazis—how can Israel even begin to be liberated when his murdered sons and daughters are still not fully counted and what he endured in, e.g., murder camps is minimized? 

Monday, May 30, 2016

Will Great-Granduncle Bernie Ever Rest In Peace? At Least Until He Gets A Purple Heart...

Great-Granduncle Bernie won't ever rest in peace as the hero that he is. Granted that I've written about Great-Granduncle Bernie before, though today's Memorial Day and a post-Holocaust victim of the Holocaust still goes unacknowledged:

Bernard Stanley Czarnecki (Benyamin Shmarya Tshernyetski ben Yehudah-Yochanahn Efryaim v'Sara Osnat, z"l) was born on March 15, 1920 to Julian John Felix (Yehudah-Yochanahn Efryaim ben Chananiah v'Sarah, z"l) and Alexandria Alice (Osnat Sarah bat Yosef HaKohen v'Sarah, z"l).

Born into a Anusi family, he was born into a family whom posed as Polish-Lithuanian Catholics in order to avoid Anti Semitism in America after the first three members (including his brother Anthony) emigrated from Poland Russia after becoming Anusim to avoid Anti Semitism there and, thus, estranging their openly-Jewish family. When Bernard "Bernie" Czarnecki became of bar-mitzvah age, part of why his parents had become Anusim was becoming clearer every day in especially Germany and the Soviet Union: the brutal and ethnocidal Anti Semitism that had permeated pogrom-riddled Russia was on an extreme resurgence. Only under a year into his adulthood (since his 20th birthday was March 15, 1940), he would enlist in the U.S. Army 111th Infantry Division Medical Corps.

Receiving a head wound due to shrapnel that hit him during combat, Pfc. Bernard S. Czarnecki had a failed operation to remove the shrapnel and was discharged from the Army on December 12, 1945. Not really being able to live at home (despite what his exploitative brothers John "Jankie" and Joseph "Susi" stated), Pfc. Czarnecki lived at the Lebanon, PA Veterans' Home And Hospital. When he died on July 16, 1963, his brothers Jankie and Susi received his Social Security benefits, which they tricked him into giving him because of his childlike condition that the shrapnel wound and botched operation effected—since he was vulnerable and easily trusting, thus able to be tricked as a child can be.

While "[i]t's a shame what [Jankie and Susi] did to Bernie," even more of a shame is that the United States never gave Pfc. Bernard Stanley Czarnecki the Purple Heart that he deserved, even posthumously. Also a shame is the shanda fur di goyim that Pfc. Bernard S. Czarnecki (WW2, DOW) was never recognized as a post-Holocaust victim of the Holocaust, despite that he died of his wounds and took almost 18 agonizing years to die.

בנימין שמריה צהרנצקי בן יהודה-יוחנן אפרים ואסנת שרה, ונכד של חנניא ושרה צהרנצקי ויוסף הכוהן ושרה  אנדרולוביץ (ז''ל, תרע''ט-תשכ''ג)


Sunday, April 10, 2016

Re: Krempasky/Kremposky of Smithfield, Haydentown PA [Re A Query On Ancestry]

We're a clan; that's for sure. The first baptism records show up for us in the late 1600s (1688, 1691, and 1698 per FamilySearch). Our surname is, according to Ancestry, "Czech or Slovak (Krempaský): descriptive nickname from krepy ‘squat’, ‘square-built’." We're not nobility or anything, though; and records are fairly scant for us (for the four main surname variants, 7,498 on Ancestry and 7,189; so, the surname in this case has to be simply lingual and not connected to ethnicity, etc..

I grant that, e.g., the Roman Catholic Church stopped releasing records to the LDS in 2009 or thereabouts over attempts to baptize decedents; what's online is updated over time, etc.. Still, "Krempasky" and variants are not connected to nobility, Czech or Slovakian ethnicity, etc.. The big clues are these:


  1. Again, scant records despite updates, etc.. How long has Ancestry/FamilySearch/the LDS been doing what they do, by the way?
  2. You state, "Nothing was really handed down to us ". That's going to be a really-big clue.
  3. Somehow, the Krempaskys et. al. all ended up in pretty much the same areas, whether or not the stick-together schtick was intentional.


There are other factors, though look at these:


  1. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2013/10/12/ten-years-later-revelation-john-kerry-ancestry-has-new-chapter/89pyoQEfOJs8PqvazCYqHO/story.html
  2. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/16/us/kerry-s-grandfather-left-judaism-behind-in-europe.html?_r=0
  3. http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-desperate-plight-of-the-bnei-anusim/?fb_comment_id=10151241725430620_33775847
  4. https://www.geni.com/projects/Sephardic-and-Crypto-Jews-of-New-Mexico/18121


My own branch of the Krempaszkys—through Rosalia Czarnogurskÿová Krempaszkÿová—became Czarnogurskÿs, with one variant of their surname being Czarnogorsky. Doing the research, etc., you find quite quickly that they were originally Schwarzbergs, Schwartzenbergs, etc. whom became Anusim (Crypto Jews) and Slavicized their name at some point (See FamilySearch for quite a few of the variants, etc. ). Perhaps they even carried it over as a Sephardic surname which later became an Ashkenazi surname—I have read about this, and this happened on my Andrulewicz side unless we dropped our original name and eventually took up a new one when we came to Poland and Lithuania (The Andrulevič[i]uses are kohanim, by the way.).

Mária Krempaszkÿová married a Jákob Trudnyakov (Trudnyak when we inherited it. Sadly, an Odesa, Ukraine branch of the Trudnyakovs was affected directly by the Holocaust.); Mihály Trudnyak married Mária Nagyová (a granddaughter of Rosalia Dudayová Nagyová , whose father's family used "Duday" as a kinnui for "Kohen" and mother's family were of the Sephardi Légrádis. Mária's maternal grandmother was Elizabetha Levaiová Nagyová.).

Mária Krempaszkÿová Trudnyaková's grandson through Mihály was also Mihály. In Sephardic custom, this naming custom is used; and Mária, by the way, as a variant of "Miryam" is fine among Ashkenazim, as a late cousin's grandnephew told me. The younger Mihály Trudnyak, meanwhile, did not name his first daughter Mary (Neither was his first sister named "Mária": she was named "Aurelia Zsuzsana".).

The younger Mihály Trudnyak also married a child of Anusim, a daughter of Sámuel and Rosalia Korschová Munka. Her name was Anna Amalia Munková, and sheunlike her sister Anna Amalia, for whom she either was named or took her own namewas left unbaptized (Samuel and Rosalia baptized no girls after their daughters Paulina, whom died in 1887, and the first Anna Amalia, whom died just shy of her first birthday, died. The final child whom was baptized, Augustinius Samuel Munka, was baptized in September 1887, months after Paulina died.).

Mihály and Anna became Michael and Anna Monka Trudniak (also "Trudnak"). Mary Trudnak married the oldest child of Alexandria Andrulewicz Czerniecki, Anthony John Czarnecki (Czerniecki by birth). Needless to say, as I found out, Alexandria (from a Litvish family), was unamused: as I figured out from what I heard, etc., she deplored that her son would marry for love (Granduncle Tony said that, that was the reason.) and not through shidduch (Granduncle Tony talked about how parents chose in the old country. I figured out that, that meant going through shidduch [matchmaking].).

Alexandria also deplored that Mary Trudnak was a Believing Jew, and a Believing Jew whom was a daughter of Anusim! Great-Grandma really was a Believing Jew, by the way: while I didn't know that we're Jews until much later (and that's a long story!), I do remember that she was a believer, and the example of her being a believer that sticks out to me is from when my dad's family was up in Luzerne County for his mother's annual family reunions and would go visit Great-Grandma each year.

Every time that we visited, she treated me (one of her son Jack's granddaughters) and Jamie (her son Jim's son) as equally as the other grandkids and great-grandkids there; and since Jamie and I each have Cerebral Palsy (and Jamie's is much more severe and was not present from birth), that really sticks out to me. She was also a quiet and frail elderly woman (Much of the frailty had to do with years of abuse that worn her down later, as I figured out.).

I hope that this helps, even if it just gives you a lens on it from my side of the family/clan/mishpacha [family]/beit-mishpacha m'Yisra'el [house of a family among Israel].

PS Great-Granddad's families were also Anusim (on our branches, anyway), as our Grandma's families (again, on our branches, anyway). I forgot to mention, and I should mention, that "Krempasky" could have even been borrowed from neighbors or other people—Grandma's Rusnak family, for example, somehow borrowed "Kvetkovits" when Gyorgy Rusznak became an Anusi. 

Wednesday, January 27, 2016

On the 71st Anniversary Of the Liberation Of Jews From Auschwitz And Other Murder Camps, I Remember The Life Of...

My distant cousin Antoni Andrulewicz (אנתוני בן יוחנן הכוהן אנדרולוביץ, ז''ל והי''ד).









When I was doing more family research, I found out about him (and found this picture) and read about the horrid circumstances of his death.

According to what Ogrodywspomnien.pl cited, he was "arrested" (read "kidnapped"), "held hostage in the Suwalki prison" for almost three months, and murdered by asphyxiation with other victims of a "mass execution" (read, quite frankly, "mass lynching"), and put into a mass grave at the murder site.

Remember that not all Sho'ah victims fit the profile of the oft-described Sho'ah victim—and certainly, not all lived to be victims whom became liberated survivors. Because he was a ben Anusim, he (like other bnei Anusim in Non-Hispanic Europe) got overlooked (despite that Anusim and bnei Anusim were not only in Iberia and not only during the Spanish Inquisition).

As has been said, ****** didn't care whether Jews were Rabbinical, Karaite, or Non-Rabbinical and Non-Karaite Jews; and many continue to leave millions of those whom were counted for murder out of the count of those whom are to be remembered ("[B]ut for Thy sake are we killed all the day; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.").

Even 71 years later, only 6-11 Million victims of the Sho'ah (not counting the gentile ones) are counted and remembered for a blessing; and Stalin, despite that he had his equivalent of a "Final Solution", is remembered as part of the Yalta Three whom led the armed forces that liberated Jews from Auschwitz and other murder ("concentration") camps (and lets be clear: the "concentration" camps were not designed to be anything but murder camps).

Even 71 years later, then, Israel is still not fully liberated from the Nazis—how can Israel be fully liberated when his murdered sons and daughters are still not fully counted and what he endured in, e.g., murder camps is minimized?

לעולם לא שיכחו; לעולם לא שוב!


 "Andrulewicz" and variants thereof originated with "Andrulevičius" (especially "Andrulevičus") in Stakliškės (as I was told on Polish Forums). However, we also have Sephardi or Mizrachi roots, as two of our cousins were named "Kasis" (not "Kasis" as in "spit" or "Kazys" as in "Kazimierz", since that was a later renaming). As far as I can tell perAncestry.com and other sites, then, "Kasis" probably comes from "Casis", which comes with "Qisis" or "Qasis". 

As far, BTW, as why the various branches were all over the place in terms of not speaking to each other, etc., I do not know. I do know, though, that, e.g., the Andrelewitz branch in Vilna probably was done with most of us long before my branch became Anusim (Rochla bas Gitla was among the Vilna branch). 

As far as the Vil'gel'm Andrulevich branch, we last had contact with them roughly about when Great-Granddad was born in Cuman (now Tsuman), since Vil'gel'm lived in Buzhanka near Zvenigorodka (now Zvenyhorodka). Whether it was before Great-Granddad was born or after he was, I don't know. 

I've had to figure out quite a bit of this through inference, etc.. Ultimately, nonetheless, it won't change that I'm a bat-Anusim whom has a duty to make sure that even distant relatives who were Sho'ah victims aren't forgotten.

Tuesday, November 4, 2014

147 Years Ago Yesterday, And The Disastrous Effects Which It Affected

On November 2, 1877, a newborn boy named András Rusznák was baptized. András was apparently just another Slovakian boy being baptized in Zlatá Idka, Slovakia (then Aranyida, Ausztria Magyarország) on, of all days, All Souls' Day. So, he allegedly was a newborn boy of Slovakian ethnicity being baptized on a special day. What's the big deal, then?

The big deal is this boy was neither a Slovakian ethnic or a real recipient of the Sacrament of Baptism. Speaking of souls as well, his parents' souls were not even into baptizing him at all. Furthermore, they themselves were נשמות אנוסים—forced souls. They weren't even there in Aranyida to be there.

They were there because they, Jakub and Marysia "Maria" Nováková, were בני אנוסים who just didn't feel comfortable returning to the shtetl of Kassa (now Košice) in nominally-religious-freedom-supporting Ausztria Magyarország (In fact, a Levite like Jakub—a kohen by the name of Fritzwould become an אנוסים in the next century. So, supposedly-tolerant Ausztria Magyarország wasn't so tolerant after all, and apparently became worse by the time that Fritz Kohn "Kerry" was persecuted.). 

András Rusznák himself, however, did leave Aranyida, though he also didn't return to his ancestral shtetl. He, with a Molnár cousin, immigrated to the United States and lived no differently than Jakub (the son of אנוסים György "Kvetkovits" Rusznák HaLevi and Erzsébet Rusznáková née Molnárová) had lived in Ausztria Magyarország—that is, he lived as an אנוסי. After he did that, disaster struck.

András came to the United States in 1902 and never thought that he would receive a letter from his Kassa-residing cousins, let alone one in which a request for help was written. 40-42 years later, however, that kind of letter was received by him and his daughter Mary Rusnak Gaydos. Thus, the boundary that was erected by the Kassa relatives' sitting שבעה was broken—or so the Kassa cousins hoped. 

Besides, they weren't sending a letter of reconciliation. They were sending a letter for העזרה לענין פיקוח נפש—help for the sake of piku'ach nefesh. They weren't looking after just themselves, either—they had families for whom to care and cousins who also had families, and family members in הארץ ישראל (which the Nazis and the Grand Mufti [ימח שמם] were targeting in their Middle Eastern invasion). 

As I alluded to, disaster then struck. András Rusznák (now Andrew Rusnak) and Mary Rusnak Gaydos, in order to cover that they were Jewish and follow the isolationist policy of the United States under Anti-Semitic Franklin Roosevelt (ימח שמם)—ceased all correspondence with their Kassa cousins, most of whom were murdered in השואה (Andrew's and Mary's kind of attitude, by the way, also had affects on the S.S. St. Louis Incident.),

Then Andrew, now the widower of  Julia Fosko Rusnak (née Juliana Foczková, ז'ל) was stricken with cancer and died of it. By the way, Julia (an אישה צדיקה and a לוית צדיקה) was taken before she had to see all that would befall her husband and her oldest child. After that, Andrew and whoever wrote his obituary (presumably Mary) decided to invent a fictional brother for Andrew (Stef) and lie to Andrew's son Carl (an איש צדיק) , who was charged with filling out with his father's death certificate.

As for the disasters that befell Mary—well, I can safely say that, for example, having a granddaughter who attempted suicide and living to attend the funeral of her great-grandson who drowned count as two disasters (She died in 1992, just after the deceased great-grandson's sister was born, by the way. The decedent drowned in 1991. So, she was alive when a descendant died and didn't live to see another descendant grow before her eyes.). 

By the way, all I received were evasive answers when I asked further questions about the supposed uncle of Mary, who allegedly wrote a letter to her in 1947. Also, there is no baptism record for him. So (so to speak), another hole was shot into that "Relatives wrote letters to ask for money, and she stopped writing" סיפור פיות. 

So, what's the point? The point is the point that I made on Twitter, and this account is a case in point:

[F]orcing someone against his or her will always ends in disastrous results somewhere along the line.




     

Monday, May 19, 2014

The Too-Long Comment Re Dana Horn's Article

"True, European Jewish immigrants did have to render their names into Latin or Cyrillic letters to create passports, and yes, passports were sometimes forged—but those forgeries or name changes would have been generated by the immigrants themselves. It is also true that many immigrants chose new names for themselves in America, whether for expediency or to avoid discrimination. But that was after they left Ellis Island. I am not revealing state secrets here, or arcane information. Any school child who has been on a field trip to Ellis Island knows all this. But why use facts when rumors will do?"

Yep. My paternal granddad's paternal family did this. "Czerniezka"? Who checked; and, by the way, who questioned when Alexandria "Czerniezka" listed "Katarzyna [?] Czerniezka", to whom she was not talking, as her nearest relative from whence she came (and never mind that they weren't talking after the former had become a Anusit)? (By the way, they were both Danilowiczes somehow. "Katarzyna" certainly was, as she was born a Danilowicz
ówna.) And on other records..."Czarnecki", "Chernetski", "Czarniecki", "Czerniecki" (the original one, apparently), "Charnetski". Something should've caught on; and, blessedly, it somehow never did (and, by the way, Great-Granddad "spoke perfect English"; and English was neither his nor his extremely-literate parents' native language, and his dad particularly knew how to get around the system. His mom was a little more honest. Still, Great-Granddad was one of those who was marked by "inaccuracies [which] were grounds for deporting improperly documented or unqualified people back to Europe". How Ellis Island, the Luzerne County Courts, etc. never caught on, I can only guess.


As for "facts when rumors will do" on the flip side: one of our surnames is "Foc(z)ko" or "seal". Whether it's a deliberate pun on "Siegel" (and I'll bet that it is), I can only guess. But my cousin (since we were Anusim who fled Poland after the Non-Anusi branch bid us farewell) gets so mad when I point out that "Focko" and "Foczko" are rare, in mainly Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary (and became "Fosko" in many cases in the U.S.); is "Focko" and "Foczko" ("Fo-ts-ko") in Polish, Slovakian (with the non-accented "c"), and Hungarian; and both the Polish and Hungarian use the word "foka" (with the only difference being the Hungarian having the "ó"), and Slovakian doesn't have that word. Also, we immigrated to Upper Hungary, the more-tolerant of the two Hungarys (not Lower Hungary), where we could pass and have Slovakized our name if we so chose (We didn't.). 


He loves to continue to buy the family tripe, which includes all this randomness/coincidences/conveniently leaving out geographical proximity and other relevant factors (e.g., that István Foczko's wife, Jána Hanzóková Foczková, was never noted to be of "hanzók"/Hanseatic descent [and if she was, that would've come out; as one of our ways of passing was to try to link ourselves to gentile notables if we could]; that her mother was a Lázárová, and that her only daughter, Julianna Foczková, was deliberately proposed to by a Levite whose parental grandparents had to be "felmentették" ["acquitted"] to marry). In doing so, he also (whether or not he realizes that he) dumbs us down quite a bit (e.g., as if Anusim weren't smart enough to seek each other out?). 

By the way, he didn't mind using my granddad's old Stefan Czarniecki canard on me. He lost, though: ours was "Czerniecki" (apparently. It could've been "Zernetzky", too. Who knows? It was an Anusi marriage done at Maćkowa Ruda, far from Krasne and Lipsk, and far from the eyes and ears of rabbis who'd've never allowed a Catholic marriage even for "Antoni" and "Katarzyna" to gain freedom from serfdom). We were never near the Anti-Semite Stefan Czarniecki (We are related to Kirk Douglas, though. I don't know the connection; yet, there you go: "Danilovich" wasn't just a patronymic after all, and the Daniloviches are responsible for producing an Exodus denier who raped Natalie Wood. We're also responsible for producing Jack Czarnecki, who hurt a lot of people—including by hiding his Jewishness and trying to connect us to Stefan Czarniecki. 

(Concerning that [i.e., Kirk Douglas, my granddad's self hating, and whatever else that is bad that I didn't know until I began doing the family research] , I was like Darby Conley after he got his cat—"sorry and ignorant.")


Tuesday, April 15, 2014

Three Questions For a Seder and My Answers (And In Lieu of Pictures of the Passover Eclipse)

By the way, the original poster makes a good point, and even I only remember 1620 (April or May), Plymouth, Massachusetts (from which I'm assuming the city in Luzerne County got its name), the Pilgrims, etc.—and I'm an American-born Jew who majored in Political Science, not to mention one whose mom's family is purportedly related to Ethan Allen  and somehow related to John Allan! 

(I have yet, I think, to figure out the exact connection. Nonetheless, as Allen family history goes, you are an alcoholic and/or have a relationship with a difficult parent. Edgar Allan Poe indeed had both traits—and don't be mistaken; adopted children can pick up family traits. The point, of course, is that I should know more about the Mayflower, the Puritans, etc.—and the one thing, or at least one of the things, that sticks with me is the Sukkot celebration that became Thanksgiving.)

Anyway, enough about not being American enough for being so American (though maybe that's a good thing; given that it might mean that I'm less assimilated than I could've been for being a bat-Anusim who didn't know about my Jewish heritage for years!). 

By the way, one more point before I answer the questions (and this really sticking with me): unlike Anusi Christopher Columbus, who understandably drew a parallel between the Native Americans and the Kena'anim, there can be no explanation as to why the Puritans killed the Native Americans who they killed (Quite frankly, Columbus killed some Native Americans; whereas the Puritans murdered them. With the differences of the Covenants, Columbus did what was right while the Puritans did not. Besides, you would have to be kidding yourself if you could blame, e.g., Pinchas and Paul for murder. In the case of Paul, by the way, he thought that he was applying the mitzvot about killing koferim correctly.).

1. What events have shaped your identity on a personal and a Jewish level?

There are so many that I could not even begin to answer this question fully. One, though, is when I saw a Messianic Jewish display at a Family Christian Bookstores shop and then typed in "Jews For Jesus" as (what I thought was) a joke to see where it would go. The other thing, too, was Dad taking deliberate pains to pronounce our last name "Charnetski" at points. So, really, it was a sequence of events that led up to finding out who I really am.

By the way, I know that my family gets mad at me; and one complaint is that circumstantial evidence is not enough. However, circumstantial evidence was enough for those such as Hillel (e.g., a woman didn't need a body to prove that her husband was dead). Also, Dad's atDNA results are showing "Caucasus" (Middle Eastern) DNA. Incidentally, I still maintain that the Foczkos are Levites; and whoever permanently marked our DNA gave the Foczko men the R1a1a1b1-Z280-...L-1280 mutation (which is apparently an European R1a1a1 mutation, although whoever updated the chart did not update the R1a1a1b1...CTS6 to reflect an exclusively-Persian origin and needs to do that). Also, gerim and giyorot were considered part of the tribe into whom they married.
 
2. How do you recall them? How do they influence the way you live and act?


See my About.Me page. From there, you can see my Facebook accounts and page, my Twitter account, and other medium that I use, all of which reflect how finding out that I'm Jewish and a bat-Levi (and a bat-kohanim) have affected how I live and act. That'll be quite a recollection on my part, I think.

3. What stories do you tell your children about your family and communal past?


I don't have children (at least yet), and the answer to Question Two applies to Question Three. By the way, Lipsk, Sejny, etc. were part of Congress Poland; and I also now know why owning farms was so important for the Czernieckis, Danilowiczes, etc.:

The government of Nicholas I regarded the cantonist laws as part of the system of legislation for "correcting" the Jews in the realm, their principal object being to convert large numbers of Jewish children to Christianity and make them conform to the Russian environment. The cantonist laws were therefore used as a means of exerting pressure on Jews in other spheres. Jewish youths who attended the state schools, for instance, were exempted from their military obligations, as were children of Jewish agricultural colonists. These concessions, therefore, to some extent promoted an increase in the proportion of Jewish children at state schools and of Jewish agricultural settlers. The cantonist legislation also did not apply to districts of the Kingdom of Poland and of Bessarabia – the latter until 1852 – so that a number of Jews moved from the Ukraine, Belorussia, and Lithuania to these areas. The law thus also stimulated Jewish emigration from Russia.
.וזה כל. לילה ופסח טוב ושמח 


Thursday, February 6, 2014

A Particular Troll On PolishForums.Com and Observations

Firstly, I want to apologize to Magdalena. I guess that I lumped her in with Harry and Jon when she had taken their side and vice versa. When two troublemakers defend someone honest and vice versa, to tell who's honest and who's not gets hard. Secondly, I want to warn you to watch out for Harry and particular (as the exchange below will show). By the way, this guy has denied that Dad has ever abused me and has said that Dad loves me, and he doesn't even know anything other than what I've said—and what does that tell you about him? He denies abuse and falsely defends an abuser, and slanders the abuse victim who would have no reason to lie—and if he wants to talk about evidence, he can look up "Czarnecki v. Czarnecki (2006)" (or whatever the case is called—perhaps "En re Czarnecki" (2006)) in the Howard County, Maryland court system. The verdict was in my and my sister's favor.

Also, I have nothing to hide about my family, etc., regardless of that my family did. As the exchange below will show, my great-great-granddad's parents clearly went out of their way to hide from their ro'eh that they married Roman Catholicly. They went nine hours and 34 minutes away to marry.

No wonder, then, that they would be angry when their son and in-law daughter became Anusim during the pogroms—to them, that their son and in-law daughter would become Anusim after they returned to Judaism and had married Roman Catholicly only to secure their freedom was a slap in the face in their minds. They must've been thinking, "Did you not learn from our mistake? You have committed a chillul HaShem! You have made your lives more important than your nefashot."

Besides, there had already been the January Uprising, and Poles couldn't own land. So, why did Antoni and Katarzyna own a farm in Lipsk? Besides, Julian Danilowicz fled conscription. Poles may have been unlucky, but Jews were worse off:

"Unlike enlightened Jews in the Polish Congress Kingdom who argued for Jewish personal army service to prove their patriotism and eventually to bring them full emancipation, Jewish communal elders throughout the Pale of Settlement had well-grounded doubts about the good will of the Russian authorities. Before the publication of the statute, Jews realized that conscription jeopardized the traditional status of their community. Accordingly, Jews flocked to such tsadikim as Avraham Yehoshu‘a Heshel (d. 1825), seeking intercession with the Almighty. Supported by Hasidic tsadikim and wealthy Jews, they raised funds to bribe state officials, vainly struggling to prevent the law on Jewish conscription from being implemented."

Also, there were "Jew hunts", not Catholic hunts. So, Julian Danilowicz and Julian and Alexandria Czernecki took the course of converting to Roman Catholicism and living as Anusim in the United States. 

By the way, as I type, the exchange is getting worse. I meant "out of the way of Lipsk and Krasne". Maybe I don't apologize to Magdalena after all. Furthermore, there are no random events or coincidences in life (co[inciding]-incidences? Sure. Coincidences? No.)—I just wanted to note that in case anyone else wants to pull the "How do you know that you're related to those Andruleviches?" card, for example.





pam   ♀ ModeratorToday, 10:53am  #

Nickidewbear:
And how do I know? She's not one of these people that I can exactly trust.


I am also telling you that the sentence was translated correctly. But you obviously don't want to take my word for that either.
As for whether you can trust Magdalena, I notice you accepted without question her translation of the marriage certificate, so why would you doubt her translation of that sentence? Because it doesn't fit in with what you thought it meant? Magdalena is also a professional translator,so why would she put her reputation on the line giving you an inaccurate translation that anyone with any knowledge of Polish could pick up on as being wrong? I think you are doing her an injustice here.

Nickidewbear:
Nickidewbear:Then why do I get so many hits saying that is reliable for the basic gist?



I use it for translation of a few words here and there.
When it comes to sentences, in my opinion it's more often wrong than right.


Your opinion seems to contradict with the evidence, though; and then I get the rapsheet when I bring up evidence that points to something? I'm sorry for you that I'm not the mold-fitting Jew; and if something seems questionable and agenda pushed, I'm going to bring it up.


I am not interested in what other users of Google Translate think Nicki. I am telling you that on the many occasions that I have used it in the past, it was inaccurate and unreliable which is why I rarely use it these days. Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
I don't have any axe to grind with you Nicki. Whether you are Jewish or not doesn't actually interest me.
I spoke up only because Magdalena's translation is correct, and from initially thanking her for her translation of the marriage certificate, you are now condemning someone who tried to help you as a liar.
I don't think that's very fair.

Reply    Quote
Harry   ♂Edited by: Harry  Today, 11:16am     #

Nickidewbear:
 I just had a legitimate question: "Why would they fall out with their son if they were Catholic, since he and his wife converted to Catholicism? Also, they didn't fall out until after Great-Granddad was born. Furthermore, why would he have to lie so much on his naturalization, etc. documents?"

Both of those questions were answered above (i.e. there are millions of reasons), you just didn't like the answers, especially given that your preferred answer is directly contradicted by this marriage certificate.

Nickidewbear:
To be honest, I think that someone is mistaken or lying: either Google Translate is or Magdalena is, or Maciej found a document with the same names that Great-Great-Granddad gave but with people who different people.

No, Magda is most certainly not lying to you. Google translate very often produces incorrect translations. It is possible that this document does refer to other people but it's more likely that it does refer to the people you think it refers to. Most probably it is you who is mistaken.

Nickidewbear:
Also, that they married Catholic doesn't preclude them from being Jewish if they are the right people.

You mean that they were so well connected that even though they were Jews they could get married as Catholics but they were not so well connected that they could get a rabbi to come to their tiny village? Interesting interpretation of the facts.

Nickidewbear:
Why would they not mention if the parents were Catholic, too?

Same reason the document didn't mention that they were humans: because it was so obvious!

Nickidewbear:
She, Harry, and Jon have had problems with that my family history doesn't fit the mold for how a Jew's history normally fits.

Nickie, I really do not give a cr@p how your family history fits with anything. I don't believe that there is a 'normal' history for any Jew; please stop lying about me.

Nickidewbear:
she could be lying to me in order to affect me to think something different, since she is fluent in Polish and I have no clue what is being said. So, she could be trying to dupe me.

She tried to help you and because you didn't like what the document says you accuse her of lying to you. I hope you don't expect any help from anybody else with translations in the future.

Nickidewbear:
If he was born Catholic, why did he marry a Jew?

Maybe he loved her? Maybe they got drunk and he knocked her up? Maybe she had a ton of cash and he wanted to get his hands on it? Maybe he had a fetish for Jews? Maybe his father was a virulent anti-semite and he wanted to really annoy his father because he hated his father? There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe his bride was not a Jew?

Nickidewbear:
Also, why did he fall out with his parents for converting?

You only know that he fell out with his parents, not why he fell out with them. Given that they were married as Catholics, it's rather unlikely that they would have objected to him being a Catholic.

Nickidewbear:
Why did his son and grandson marry Jews?

See above. There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe their brides were not Jews?

Reply    Quote
Magdalena  Photos: 1  ♀Edited by: Magdalena  Today, 11:39am     #

Nickidewbear:
By the way, a Jewish Danilovich named Anton (as if Jews can't have Polish names):


You keep quoting these JewishGen records... and I agree, these people have some similar surnames to the ones in your family, and they did exist. There is only one problem here: how do you prove that they were related to you in any way? Simply having the same surname and living in roughly the same area is not much proof one way or the other. My paternal grandparents had the same surname as a very wealthy szlachta family living in their area, but they were not related to them at all - they were their freed serfs (this is just an example, I am not trying to imply anything about who your ancestors were by this).

As you know, Jews were made to start using surnames around the start of the 19th century, and many of them took the surnames that were popular in the general populace surrounding them. This is another reason not to trust in surname alone. You could be looking for Polish ancestors with a name like Złotopolski and find out you are Jewish, as well as think you might be Jewish and come across gentiles. As you said, it's not cut and dried at all.

This is why you need to look for further, more detailed info than that, is all I'm saying. I will repeat myself once again: the marriage certificate is not proof of your Jewish origin and I think you are starting to read too much into it, like "could 'priest' actually mean 'rabbi'" etc. If it were a rabbi marrying them, don't you think he would have written the certificate in Yiddish and kept the records in the Synagogue or some such place?

Another important clue: the certificate I translated clearly states that all of the participants were illiterate. As far as I know, all Jewish boys were taught to read and write? Wouldn't at least one of them be able to sign the certificate? "Illiterate" and "Polish-speaking" screams Catholic peasants to me.

For all I know, you might be Jewish, and I frankly couldn't care less one way or the other; but this particular document does nothing to prove that. I would be looking for late baptisms, intermarriages, typically Jewish first names in your family's records (not any and all Jewish records that fit the general area though).

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 04:23pm  #

pam:

Nickidewbear:And how do I know? She's not one of these people that I can exactly trust.

I am also telling you that the sentence was translated correctly. But you obviously don't want to take my word for that either.
As for whether you can trust Magdalena, I notice you accepted without question her translation of the marriage certificate, so why would you doubt her translation of that sentence? Because it doesn't fit in with what you thought it meant? Magdalena is also a professional translator,so why would she put her reputation on the line giving you an inaccurate translation that anyone with any knowledge of Polish could pick up on as being wrong? I think you are doing her an injustice here.


I told you why. Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though." So, I did see something which I believed suspect

Nickidewbear:Nickidewbear:Then why do I get so many hits saying that is reliable for the basic gist?



I use it for translation of a few words here and there.
When it comes to sentences, in my opinion it's more often wrong than right.


Your opinion seems to contradict with the evidence, though; and then I get the rapsheet when I bring up evidence that points to something? I'm sorry for you that I'm not the mold-fitting Jew; and if something seems questionable and agenda pushed, I'm going to bring it up.


I am not interested in what other users of Google Translate think Nicki. I am telling you that on the many occasions that I have used it in the past, it was inaccurate and unreliable which is why I rarely use it these days. Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
I don't have any axe to grind with you Nicki. Whether you are Jewish or not doesn't actually interest me.
I spoke up only because Magdalena's translation is correct, and from initially thanking her for her translation of the marriage certificate, you are now condemning someone who tried to help you as a liar.
I don't think that's very fair.


I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim. I've even had to submit corrections. What I resent, too, is the implication that I'm stupid about it. "Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim."

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Edited by: Nickidewbear  Today, 04:36pm  #

Magdalena:
You keep quoting these JewishGen records... and I agree, these people have some similar surnames to the ones in your family, and they did exist. There is only one problem here: how do you prove that they were related to you in any way? Simply having the same surname and living in roughly the same area is not much proof one way or the other. My paternal grandparents had the same surname as a very wealthy szlachta family living in their area, but they were not related to them at all - they were their freed serfs (this is just an example, I am not trying to imply anything about who your ancestors were by this).

As you know, Jews were made to start using surnames around the start of the 19th century, and many of them took the surnames that were popular in the general populace surrounding them. This is another reason not to trust in surname alone. You could be looking for Polish ancestors with a name like Złotopolski and find out you are Jewish, as well as think you might be Jewish and come across gentiles. As you said, it's not cut and dried at all.

This is why you need to look for further, more detailed info than that, is all I'm saying. I will repeat myself once again: the marriage certificate is not proof of your Jewish origin and I think you are starting to read too much into it, like "could 'priest' actually mean 'rabbi'" etc. If it were a rabbi marrying them, don't you think he would have written the certificate in Yiddish and kept the records in the Synagogue or some such place?

Another important clue: the certificate I translated clearly states that all of the participants were illiterate. As far as I know, all Jewish boys were taught to read and write? Wouldn't at least one of them be able to sign the certificate? "Illiterate" and "Polish-speaking" screams Catholic peasants to me.

For all I know, you might be Jewish, and I frankly couldn't care less one way or the other; but this particular document does nothing to prove that. I would be looking for late baptisms, intermarriages, typically Jewish first names in your family's records (not any and all Jewish records that fit the general area though).


All I'm saying is that they may have been considered "illiterate" because they were not literate in Polish. Many Jews did not speak what they considered treif or goyische leshonot. Also, we don't have a family tree that traces beyond the 1700s. When they went to Lipsk, they may have remarried as "ba'alim teshuvah" who were "ba'alim b'lashon hakodesh. I just wanted to make sure that I am getting an honest translation because of what has happened in the past and what you are saying here.

Please understand that I am not ungrateful, and that I just don't take everything at face value. I apologize for any point at which I got contentious and went over the line in the way that I raised my question, and I am grateful for the translation.

PS As for Harry:

Harry:
Maybe he loved her? Maybe they got drunk and he knocked her up? Maybe she had a ton of cash and he wanted to get his hands on it? Maybe he had a fetish for Jews? Maybe his father was a virulent anti-semite and he wanted to really annoy his father because he hated his father? There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe his bride was not a Jew?


When you, Harry, make statements like that, you shatter your credibility altogether. There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement. Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.

Reply    Quote
Harry   ♂Today, 04:48pm     #

Nickidewbear:
I told you why.

Saying that Magda is lying isn't going to make your ancestors Jewish. The only thing it's going to do is decrease the chances that anybody will help you with translations in the future.

Nickidewbear:
Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though."

Your question has now been repeatedly answered. Unfortunately the documentary evidence does not fit your hypothesis; that means you need to re-assess your hypothesis, not claim that the translator is lying.

Nickidewbear:
I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.

Run what your cousin said through google translate: "Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy" http://translate.google.pl/#pl/en/Mysle%20ze%20tak%20a%20nawet%20 napewno%20to%20sa%20katolicy "I think that so even sure these are Catholics"

Nickidewbear:
There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement.

There is exactly as much evidence that they married for love as there is that they did shidduch, i.e. absolutely none. However, there is documentation which strongly suggests that they did not did shidduch, i.e. their marriage certificate.

Nickidewbear:
 Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.

Let me guess, the 'evidence that she was a Jew is that she married somebody you claim was a Jew and the 'evidence' that he was a Jew is that he married somebody you claim was a Jew, right?

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 06:10pm  #

Harry:
Nickidewbear:I told you why.
Saying that Magda is lying isn't going to make your ancestors Jewish. The only thing it's going to do is decrease the chances that anybody will help you with translations in the future.


I already apologized, and you look like a fool for rehashing it.

Nickidewbear:Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though."
Your question has now been repeatedly answered. Unfortunately the documentary evidence does not fit your hypothesis; that means you need to re-assess your hypothesis, not claim that the translator is lying.


Actually, it does. I'd hate to be you right now because you're ignoring how far Maćkowa Ruda is from Lipsk and Krasne . If a condition for their freedom was to marry Catholic for their freedom, they were going to do it in an out-of-the-way town where the "rabbi"s would never be the wiser.

Nickidewbear:I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
Run what your cousin said through google translate: "Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy" http://translate.google.pl/#pl/en/Mysle%20ze%20tak%20a%20nawet%20 napewno%20to%20sa%20katolicy "I think that so even sure these are Catholics"


It said, ""Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy no ale tylko tyle znalazlem:)"." Nice try, though.

Nickidewbear:There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement.
There is exactly as much evidence that they married for love as there is that they did shidduch, i.e. absolutely none. However, there is documentation which strongly suggests that they did not did shidduch, i.e. their marriage certificate.


Actually, the documentation does suggest shidduch. Nice try, though.

Nickidewbear: Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.
Let me guess, the 'evidence that she was a Jew is that she married somebody you claim was a Jew and the 'evidence' that he was a Jew is that he married somebody you claim was a Jew, right?


You clearly didn't pay attention, did you? This is why I ignore you. You cherrypick evidence for your convenience and then ignore evidence that I bring up, and then tell me that I'm cherrypicking. I'm going to tell you again, whether or not you give a darn, that she had Jewish cousins named Nik and Vil'gel'm, that her cousin Rochla was listed as "Hebrew", that her cousin Shmuil Morgovich died in Stakliskes and that (thus) her birthdate of June 26, 1882 actually checks out, that Jews did not intermarry in those days unless they wanted severe reprecussions, and that people converted "up" and not "down" in those days unless they wanted severe reprecussions (and, in fact, many of the gerim known as Subbotniks themselves became gerim Anusimbecause of that).

Don't expect me to read or respond to your posts in the future. I keep letting you get to me, and to do so is a mistake on my part.


[Updated exchange. By the way, Wigry is not even in the same parish.] Thank you for proving my point, Magdalena.]



ShawnH   ♂Today, 06:28pm     #

Nickidewbear:
It said, ""Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy no ale tylko tyle znalazlem:)"." Nice try, though.

Nicki, when I put that phrase above (in its entirety) I get the following:

"I think that so even sure these are not Catholics but only so much I found"

Can you translate that for me? It makes no sense whatsoever to me. I wouldn't trust Google Translate as far as I could throw it. Especially if it has any colloquial Polish in it.

Reply    Quote
Magdalena  Photos: 1  ♀Today, 06:34pm     #

Nickidewbear:
Actually, it does. I'd hate to be you right now because you're ignoring how far Maćkowa Ruda is from Lipsk and Krasne . If a condition for their freedom was to marry Catholic for their freedom, they were going to do it in an out-of-the-way town where the "rabbi"s would never be the wiser.


Actually, if the certificate is anything to go by, they got married at Wigry (not such a very out-of-the-way place at all):

http://wigry.diecezja.elk.pl/obszar-parafii.html
(area of the Parish - Maćkowa Ruda is included)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?client=tmpg&de pth=1&hl=en&langpair=pl|en&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www .wigry.pro/&usg=ALkJrhgQ08ejbeBelHdDJXgO9ul7ih3UjQ

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lunacy   ♀Today, 07:20pm     #

The problem is that your cousin didn't use any punctuation marks etc., correctly it should look like: "Myślę, że tak, a nawet na pewno to są katolicy, no ale tylko tyle znalazłem". Your cousin (male as I can see) was probably writing too hastily - or was it a quick message on the phone? Classic, sadly too many Polish people don't use punctuation nor Polish characters when writing quickly. Don't trust google translate too much, as Polish is gramatically a very complex language and google just can't translate correctly either from or to Polish (especially long sentences, short or one-word phrases are usually correct).
An experiment for you: translate there this very simple sentence: "Byłam tam z dwiema paniami". [Byłam is a female form of "być"="to be" in a past tense and that sentence means "I was there with two ladies" - where "I" is a woman.] Now copy the result and try to translate that sentence back to Polish. What did you get? Does it look the same as original?

I already saw that google translate has problems with the word "no" in Polish, which is actually untranslatable - it's an informal [common language] pause-word that is often used to emphasize the word/phrase that follows it. The most simple examples: we say "no tak" when we agree with something = we emphasize "tak" (english: yes), we scream "no nie!" in anger or sadness to emphasize "nie" (english: no) when we e.g. see something wrong. We also often keep saying "no... no... no..." when listening to someone and want him/her to continue (it often happens during phone conversations - to make the caller sure we're listening and keeping up with the story).

So, your cousin, male, wrote: "I think that yes, even certainly they are Catholics, but that's all I found" - "no" was to emphasize the fact that it was all he found.

The priest in the certificate - "ksiądz" or "ks." in short - is certainly Christian. If that was a rabbi, a word "rabin" would be used.

I don't want to interfere in this topic too much, but those particular language details are very obvious and simple. Nickidewbear - if you don't have the trust in yourself for the answers you got, why don't you start learning Polish yourself?

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Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 07:38pm  #

lunacy:
The problem is that your cousin didn't use any punctuation marks etc., correctly it should look like: "Myślę, że tak, a nawet na pewno to są katolicy, no ale tylko tyle znalazłem". Your cousin (male as I can see) was probably writing too hastily - or was it a quick message on the phone? Classic, sadly too many Polish people don't use punctuation nor Polish characters when writing quickly. Don't trust google translate too much, as Polish is gramatically a very complex language and google just can't translate correctly either from or to Polish (especially long sentences, short or one-word phrases are usually correct).
An experiment for you: translate there this very simple sentence: "Byłam tam z dwiema paniami". [Byłam is a female form of "być"="to be" in a past tense and that sentence means "I was there with two ladies" - where "I" is a woman.] Now copy the result and try to translate that sentence back to Polish. What did you get? Does it look the same as original?

I already saw that google translate has problems with the word "no" in Polish, which is actually untranslatable - it's an informal [common language] pause-word that is often used to emphasize the word/phrase that follows it. The most simple examples: we say "no tak" when we agree with something = we emphasize "tak" (english: yes), we scream "no nie!" in anger or sadness to emphasize "nie" (english: no) when we e.g. see something wrong. We also often keep saying "no... no... no..." when listening to someone and want him/her to continue (it often happens during phone conversations - to make the caller sure we're listening and keeping up with the story).

So, your cousin, male, wrote: "I think that yes, even certainly they are Catholics, but that's all I found" - "no" was to emphasize the fact that it was all he found.

The priest in the certificate - "ksiądz" or "ks." in short - is certainly Christian. If that was a rabbi, a word "rabin" would be used.

I don't want to interfere in this topic too much, but those particular language details are very obvious and simple. Nickidewbear - if you don't have the trust in yourself for the answers you got, why don't you start learning Polish yourself?


I just wanted to make sure, and I already apologized for what I needed to apologize. I also already said that I accept the certificate. How when I bring up evidence is ignored, but I'm cherrypicked. How convenient.

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lunacy   ♀Today, 07:41pm     #

Wow. You're not cherrypicked by anyone. I just wanted to help and explain the Polish "no", because the sentence written by your cousin caused such a buzz and ShawnH asked for translation.

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Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 07:53pm  #

lunacy:
Wow. You're not cherrypicked by anyone. I just wanted to help and explain the Polish "no", because the sentence written by your cousin caused such a buzz and ShawnH asked for translation.


Then how come you conveniently ignored that I already apologized, for example? I was very explicit in saying that "I apologize for any point at which I got contentious and went over the line in the way that I raised my question, and I am grateful for the translation." Also, I am cherrypicked. That's very obvious, and I didn't mean by you at all up until this point. I meant by people like Harry. Also, I kept bringing up the Andruleviches, etc., and that was conveniently ignored.