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Let me lay down exactly why "Czarnecki" may be a Sephardic Jewish name (As you can see, Polish Anti Semites and others hijacked the thread by slandering me, clearly twisting my arguments, etc.. So, let me lay down the argument without any PolishForums.com tsores--or as they might prefer if they read this blog, cores--here.):
Did Sephardic Jews fleeing into Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, and Russia bring in "Czarnecki" and its variants? According to About.com Genealogy expert Kimberly Powell:
How do you like that? We Jews might've brought "Czarnecki" into Poland. Sephardic Jews probably brought it in to [sic.. from] Spain; which is important because then it would give even less excuses for any Anti Semitism in Poland and among Poles, especially since some of the "marranos" (Anusim) may have been Messianic Jewish Catholics and otherwise Messianic Jews whose conversions were not taken seriously.
For my PolishForum.com readers and others who are still in doubt, you're sure that "Czarnia" isn't a Polonized form of "Negro" or something? If you have a problem with it, ask Kimberly Powell; or do the research like I did to confirm what Ms. Powell stated. Let's try Ancestry.com with Google Translate, which is basic but useful, for size:
"Soto Name Meaninghabitational name from any of numerous places named Soto or El Soto, from soto ‘grove’, ‘small wood’ (Latin saltus).Castilianized spelling of Asturian-Leonese Sotu, a habitational name from a town so named in Asturies.Castilianized spelling of the Galician equivalent, Souto."
(Plural is Sotos)
Soto --> zagajnik --> shrubbery
Sotos --> gaje --> groves
But hang on...
saltus --> las --> forest
Czarnecki:
Czarnecki Name MeaningPolish and Jewish (from Poland): habitational name for someone from a place called Czarnca in Kielce voivodeship, or any of the various places called Czarnocin or Czarnia, all named with Polish czarny ‘black’.
"Czarnecki" thus could've come from "Sotos" in terms of there being forests with a name such is, e.g., Sotos Negros (Czarne Gaje).
"Czarnecki" could've easily been (for a lack of a better term) a bastarized form of "Czarnegaje" or "Czarnegaje". As for similar surnames, such as Czerwiński (Tsherviński)...well, let's look at Czerwiński:
Surname Origin: Spanish
Alternate Surname Spellings: SOTOS
Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4
czerwien --> red of -->rojo de
This is a case where "rojo" may have somehow sounded like "soto" and gotten mixed up, or she just confused "Czarnecki" and "Czerwiński" when she typed for About.com. Humans are imperfect. You laugh (at least if you're one of the resident Anti Semites or other resident miscreants of PolishForums.com), but I'd like to see when you're perfect. At least I researched to make my argument.
By the way, how come Polish wouldn't allow corruptions or bastardizations of its own language or other languages if it allows for place and other names such as:
and
?
Various formats and corruptions can happen in any language. I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos". I'm also saying that they could've been Polonized forms, and surnames sometimes just fade out of existence or forever become part of another language. It's very possible that all the surname bearers could've left or even been murdered in the Inquisition or even as far back as the Crusades, etc.; and had their records destroyed.
Are you still in doubt? The problem (for my PolishForum.com readers who are miscreants, anyway) is that you think that I'm suggesting that the Poles or only the Poles caused a possible bastardization of "Sotosrojos", "Sotosnegros", etc.. As I said, "I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos"." They could've been trying to come up with different or new surnames.
Again, you know that I'm wrong because? As I stated, "It's very possible that all the surname bearers could've left or even been murdered in the Inquisition or even as far back as the Crusades, etc.; and had their records destroyed." I also beforehand stated, "I'm saying that they could've been Polonized forms, and surnames sometimes just fade out of existence or forever become part of another language." I further stated, "As I said, 'I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos".' They could've been trying to come up with different or new surnames."
By the way, whole families were murdered and had evidence of their existence destroyed in the Crusades, Inquisition, etc.. "But were the records all destroyed? ;-)" You think that this is funny, don't you? The Spaniards wouldn't have wanted proof that Jews who didn't believe in Jesus were ever in existence in Spain. You can be really evil and Anti Semitic.
As for gentiles with those surnames, "So, are you going to examine the Blacks, Blackwoods, Blackgroves and Redgroves next? It's exactly the same story, isn't it? Aren't they all Spanish Jews who emigrated to the UK/US via Poland?" Not all of them, but the only Spaniards who would've fled into Poland (and I didn't even think about the Mohammedians and Protestants; but besides Mohammedians and Protestants--though I doubt that many of them would've fled into Poland--the only ones who'd've fled into Poland) with names like "Sotos", etc. are Sephardic Jews fleeing the Inquisition or perhaps even the fall of Constantinople.
By the way and back to the records point, the Spaniards wouldn't have wanted proof that Jews who didn't believe in Jesus were ever in existence in Spain. "If that is so, why do all know about medieval Spanish Jews and admire their huge achievements? I'm serious." The Inquisition didn't begin fully until 1492, and some escaped the Inquisition. By the way, I reiterate that you can be really evil and Anti Semitic by asserting that the Spaniards wouldn't have dared wiped out Jewish records in the Inquisition.
"I probably can (never tried to), but I am not. I am simply not kowtowing to whatever you say just because you call yourself a Jew. Your being whatever ethnicity / nationality / religion has absolutely nothing to do with being automatically right on any subject." By suggesting that the Spaniards wouldn't have dared to try to wipe out the records of the very people that they wanted to wipe out of existence, you are minimizing what the Inquisition was about; and that is really evil and Anti Semitic of you. Also, I never suggested that my ethnicity makes me right. To suggest that I think that I'm right just because I'm a Jew is also perhaps a little Anti Semitic on your part.
Did Sephardic Jews fleeing into Poland, Belarus, Lithuania, and Russia bring in "Czarnecki" and its variants? According to About.com Genealogy expert Kimberly Powell:
Definition: One who came from Czarnecki, a wooded place on the bank of a river (there are dozens of places named Czarnecki in Spain). This ancient surname originated in Asturias, Galicia, León, and Castile, according to the Instituto Genealógico e Histórico Latino-Americano.
Surname Origin: Spanish
Alternate Surname Spellings: SOTOS
Surname Origin: Spanish
Alternate Surname Spellings: SOTOS
How do you like that? We Jews might've brought "Czarnecki" into Poland. Sephardic Jews probably brought it in to [sic.. from] Spain; which is important because then it would give even less excuses for any Anti Semitism in Poland and among Poles, especially since some of the "marranos" (Anusim) may have been Messianic Jewish Catholics and otherwise Messianic Jews whose conversions were not taken seriously.
For my PolishForum.com readers and others who are still in doubt, you're sure that "Czarnia" isn't a Polonized form of "Negro" or something? If you have a problem with it, ask Kimberly Powell; or do the research like I did to confirm what Ms. Powell stated. Let's try Ancestry.com with Google Translate, which is basic but useful, for size:
"Soto Name Meaninghabitational name from any of numerous places named Soto or El Soto, from soto ‘grove’, ‘small wood’ (Latin saltus).Castilianized spelling of Asturian-Leonese Sotu, a habitational name from a town so named in Asturies.Castilianized spelling of the Galician equivalent, Souto."
(Plural is Sotos)
Soto --> zagajnik --> shrubbery
Sotos --> gaje --> groves
But hang on...
saltus --> las --> forest
Czarnecki:
Czarnecki Name MeaningPolish and Jewish (from Poland): habitational name for someone from a place called Czarnca in Kielce voivodeship, or any of the various places called Czarnocin or Czarnia, all named with Polish czarny ‘black’.
"Czarnecki" thus could've come from "Sotos" in terms of there being forests with a name such is, e.g., Sotos Negros (Czarne Gaje).
"Czarnecki" could've easily been (for a lack of a better term) a bastarized form of "Czarnegaje" or "Czarnegaje". As for similar surnames, such as Czerwiński (Tsherviński)...well, let's look at Czerwiński:
Kimberly Powell:
Definition: One who came from Czerwinski, a wooded place on the bank of a river (there are dozens of places named Czerwinski in Spain). This ancient surname originated in Asturias, Galicia, León, and Castile, according to the Instituto Genealógico e Histórico Latino-Americano.Surname Origin: Spanish
Alternate Surname Spellings: SOTOS
Ancestry.com:
Czerwinski Name MeaningPolish (Czerwi(e)nski): habitational name for someone from a place called Czerwin in P{l-}ock voivodeship, Czerwionka, Czerwonka, or other places in Poland named with czerwien ‘red’.Dictionary of American Family Names, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0-19-508137-4
czerwien --> red of -->rojo de
This is a case where "rojo" may have somehow sounded like "soto" and gotten mixed up, or she just confused "Czarnecki" and "Czerwiński" when she typed for About.com. Humans are imperfect. You laugh (at least if you're one of the resident Anti Semites or other resident miscreants of PolishForums.com), but I'd like to see when you're perfect. At least I researched to make my argument.
By the way, how come Polish wouldn't allow corruptions or bastardizations of its own language or other languages if it allows for place and other names such as:
Czernacze...Czarnca..Carncza... Czarcza...Czarnnecz... Carncza...Czarnca
and
Czarna Rzeka
?
Various formats and corruptions can happen in any language. I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos". I'm also saying that they could've been Polonized forms, and surnames sometimes just fade out of existence or forever become part of another language. It's very possible that all the surname bearers could've left or even been murdered in the Inquisition or even as far back as the Crusades, etc.; and had their records destroyed.
Are you still in doubt? The problem (for my PolishForum.com readers who are miscreants, anyway) is that you think that I'm suggesting that the Poles or only the Poles caused a possible bastardization of "Sotosrojos", "Sotosnegros", etc.. As I said, "I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos"." They could've been trying to come up with different or new surnames.
Again, you know that I'm wrong because? As I stated, "It's very possible that all the surname bearers could've left or even been murdered in the Inquisition or even as far back as the Crusades, etc.; and had their records destroyed." I also beforehand stated, "I'm saying that they could've been Polonized forms, and surnames sometimes just fade out of existence or forever become part of another language." I further stated, "As I said, 'I'm simply saying that "Czarne Gaje" could've been "Sotos Negros" and could've been confused as "Rojos Negros" (Hence, Czerwinski). The corruption could've even been deliberate on the part of non-native speakers who were looking to Polonize last names such as "Sotosnegros", "Rojosnegros", and "Sotosrojos".' They could've been trying to come up with different or new surnames."
By the way, whole families were murdered and had evidence of their existence destroyed in the Crusades, Inquisition, etc.. "But were the records all destroyed? ;-)" You think that this is funny, don't you? The Spaniards wouldn't have wanted proof that Jews who didn't believe in Jesus were ever in existence in Spain. You can be really evil and Anti Semitic.
As for gentiles with those surnames, "So, are you going to examine the Blacks, Blackwoods, Blackgroves and Redgroves next? It's exactly the same story, isn't it? Aren't they all Spanish Jews who emigrated to the UK/US via Poland?" Not all of them, but the only Spaniards who would've fled into Poland (and I didn't even think about the Mohammedians and Protestants; but besides Mohammedians and Protestants--though I doubt that many of them would've fled into Poland--the only ones who'd've fled into Poland) with names like "Sotos", etc. are Sephardic Jews fleeing the Inquisition or perhaps even the fall of Constantinople.
By the way and back to the records point, the Spaniards wouldn't have wanted proof that Jews who didn't believe in Jesus were ever in existence in Spain. "If that is so, why do all know about medieval Spanish Jews and admire their huge achievements? I'm serious." The Inquisition didn't begin fully until 1492, and some escaped the Inquisition. By the way, I reiterate that you can be really evil and Anti Semitic by asserting that the Spaniards wouldn't have dared wiped out Jewish records in the Inquisition.
"I probably can (never tried to), but I am not. I am simply not kowtowing to whatever you say just because you call yourself a Jew. Your being whatever ethnicity / nationality / religion has absolutely nothing to do with being automatically right on any subject." By suggesting that the Spaniards wouldn't have dared to try to wipe out the records of the very people that they wanted to wipe out of existence, you are minimizing what the Inquisition was about; and that is really evil and Anti Semitic of you. Also, I never suggested that my ethnicity makes me right. To suggest that I think that I'm right just because I'm a Jew is also perhaps a little Anti Semitic on your part.
