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Showing posts with label Russia. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Russia. Show all posts

Monday, May 30, 2016

Will Great-Granduncle Bernie Ever Rest In Peace? At Least Until He Gets A Purple Heart...

Great-Granduncle Bernie won't ever rest in peace as the hero that he is. Granted that I've written about Great-Granduncle Bernie before, though today's Memorial Day and a post-Holocaust victim of the Holocaust still goes unacknowledged:

Bernard Stanley Czarnecki (Benyamin Shmarya Tshernyetski ben Yehudah-Yochanahn Efryaim v'Sara Osnat, z"l) was born on March 15, 1920 to Julian John Felix (Yehudah-Yochanahn Efryaim ben Chananiah v'Sarah, z"l) and Alexandria Alice (Osnat Sarah bat Yosef HaKohen v'Sarah, z"l).

Born into a Anusi family, he was born into a family whom posed as Polish-Lithuanian Catholics in order to avoid Anti Semitism in America after the first three members (including his brother Anthony) emigrated from Poland Russia after becoming Anusim to avoid Anti Semitism there and, thus, estranging their openly-Jewish family. When Bernard "Bernie" Czarnecki became of bar-mitzvah age, part of why his parents had become Anusim was becoming clearer every day in especially Germany and the Soviet Union: the brutal and ethnocidal Anti Semitism that had permeated pogrom-riddled Russia was on an extreme resurgence. Only under a year into his adulthood (since his 20th birthday was March 15, 1940), he would enlist in the U.S. Army 111th Infantry Division Medical Corps.

Receiving a head wound due to shrapnel that hit him during combat, Pfc. Bernard S. Czarnecki had a failed operation to remove the shrapnel and was discharged from the Army on December 12, 1945. Not really being able to live at home (despite what his exploitative brothers John "Jankie" and Joseph "Susi" stated), Pfc. Czarnecki lived at the Lebanon, PA Veterans' Home And Hospital. When he died on July 16, 1963, his brothers Jankie and Susi received his Social Security benefits, which they tricked him into giving him because of his childlike condition that the shrapnel wound and botched operation effected—since he was vulnerable and easily trusting, thus able to be tricked as a child can be.

While "[i]t's a shame what [Jankie and Susi] did to Bernie," even more of a shame is that the United States never gave Pfc. Bernard Stanley Czarnecki the Purple Heart that he deserved, even posthumously. Also a shame is the shanda fur di goyim that Pfc. Bernard S. Czarnecki (WW2, DOW) was never recognized as a post-Holocaust victim of the Holocaust, despite that he died of his wounds and took almost 18 agonizing years to die.

בנימין שמריה צהרנצקי בן יהודה-יוחנן אפרים ואסנת שרה, ונכד של חנניא ושרה צהרנצקי ויוסף הכוהן ושרה  אנדרולוביץ (ז''ל, תרע''ט-תשכ''ג)


Thursday, February 6, 2014

A Particular Troll On PolishForums.Com and Observations

Firstly, I want to apologize to Magdalena. I guess that I lumped her in with Harry and Jon when she had taken their side and vice versa. When two troublemakers defend someone honest and vice versa, to tell who's honest and who's not gets hard. Secondly, I want to warn you to watch out for Harry and particular (as the exchange below will show). By the way, this guy has denied that Dad has ever abused me and has said that Dad loves me, and he doesn't even know anything other than what I've said—and what does that tell you about him? He denies abuse and falsely defends an abuser, and slanders the abuse victim who would have no reason to lie—and if he wants to talk about evidence, he can look up "Czarnecki v. Czarnecki (2006)" (or whatever the case is called—perhaps "En re Czarnecki" (2006)) in the Howard County, Maryland court system. The verdict was in my and my sister's favor.

Also, I have nothing to hide about my family, etc., regardless of that my family did. As the exchange below will show, my great-great-granddad's parents clearly went out of their way to hide from their ro'eh that they married Roman Catholicly. They went nine hours and 34 minutes away to marry.

No wonder, then, that they would be angry when their son and in-law daughter became Anusim during the pogroms—to them, that their son and in-law daughter would become Anusim after they returned to Judaism and had married Roman Catholicly only to secure their freedom was a slap in the face in their minds. They must've been thinking, "Did you not learn from our mistake? You have committed a chillul HaShem! You have made your lives more important than your nefashot."

Besides, there had already been the January Uprising, and Poles couldn't own land. So, why did Antoni and Katarzyna own a farm in Lipsk? Besides, Julian Danilowicz fled conscription. Poles may have been unlucky, but Jews were worse off:

"Unlike enlightened Jews in the Polish Congress Kingdom who argued for Jewish personal army service to prove their patriotism and eventually to bring them full emancipation, Jewish communal elders throughout the Pale of Settlement had well-grounded doubts about the good will of the Russian authorities. Before the publication of the statute, Jews realized that conscription jeopardized the traditional status of their community. Accordingly, Jews flocked to such tsadikim as Avraham Yehoshu‘a Heshel (d. 1825), seeking intercession with the Almighty. Supported by Hasidic tsadikim and wealthy Jews, they raised funds to bribe state officials, vainly struggling to prevent the law on Jewish conscription from being implemented."

Also, there were "Jew hunts", not Catholic hunts. So, Julian Danilowicz and Julian and Alexandria Czernecki took the course of converting to Roman Catholicism and living as Anusim in the United States. 

By the way, as I type, the exchange is getting worse. I meant "out of the way of Lipsk and Krasne". Maybe I don't apologize to Magdalena after all. Furthermore, there are no random events or coincidences in life (co[inciding]-incidences? Sure. Coincidences? No.)—I just wanted to note that in case anyone else wants to pull the "How do you know that you're related to those Andruleviches?" card, for example.





pam   ♀ ModeratorToday, 10:53am  #

Nickidewbear:
And how do I know? She's not one of these people that I can exactly trust.


I am also telling you that the sentence was translated correctly. But you obviously don't want to take my word for that either.
As for whether you can trust Magdalena, I notice you accepted without question her translation of the marriage certificate, so why would you doubt her translation of that sentence? Because it doesn't fit in with what you thought it meant? Magdalena is also a professional translator,so why would she put her reputation on the line giving you an inaccurate translation that anyone with any knowledge of Polish could pick up on as being wrong? I think you are doing her an injustice here.

Nickidewbear:
Nickidewbear:Then why do I get so many hits saying that is reliable for the basic gist?



I use it for translation of a few words here and there.
When it comes to sentences, in my opinion it's more often wrong than right.


Your opinion seems to contradict with the evidence, though; and then I get the rapsheet when I bring up evidence that points to something? I'm sorry for you that I'm not the mold-fitting Jew; and if something seems questionable and agenda pushed, I'm going to bring it up.


I am not interested in what other users of Google Translate think Nicki. I am telling you that on the many occasions that I have used it in the past, it was inaccurate and unreliable which is why I rarely use it these days. Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
I don't have any axe to grind with you Nicki. Whether you are Jewish or not doesn't actually interest me.
I spoke up only because Magdalena's translation is correct, and from initially thanking her for her translation of the marriage certificate, you are now condemning someone who tried to help you as a liar.
I don't think that's very fair.

Reply    Quote
Harry   ♂Edited by: Harry  Today, 11:16am     #

Nickidewbear:
 I just had a legitimate question: "Why would they fall out with their son if they were Catholic, since he and his wife converted to Catholicism? Also, they didn't fall out until after Great-Granddad was born. Furthermore, why would he have to lie so much on his naturalization, etc. documents?"

Both of those questions were answered above (i.e. there are millions of reasons), you just didn't like the answers, especially given that your preferred answer is directly contradicted by this marriage certificate.

Nickidewbear:
To be honest, I think that someone is mistaken or lying: either Google Translate is or Magdalena is, or Maciej found a document with the same names that Great-Great-Granddad gave but with people who different people.

No, Magda is most certainly not lying to you. Google translate very often produces incorrect translations. It is possible that this document does refer to other people but it's more likely that it does refer to the people you think it refers to. Most probably it is you who is mistaken.

Nickidewbear:
Also, that they married Catholic doesn't preclude them from being Jewish if they are the right people.

You mean that they were so well connected that even though they were Jews they could get married as Catholics but they were not so well connected that they could get a rabbi to come to their tiny village? Interesting interpretation of the facts.

Nickidewbear:
Why would they not mention if the parents were Catholic, too?

Same reason the document didn't mention that they were humans: because it was so obvious!

Nickidewbear:
She, Harry, and Jon have had problems with that my family history doesn't fit the mold for how a Jew's history normally fits.

Nickie, I really do not give a cr@p how your family history fits with anything. I don't believe that there is a 'normal' history for any Jew; please stop lying about me.

Nickidewbear:
she could be lying to me in order to affect me to think something different, since she is fluent in Polish and I have no clue what is being said. So, she could be trying to dupe me.

She tried to help you and because you didn't like what the document says you accuse her of lying to you. I hope you don't expect any help from anybody else with translations in the future.

Nickidewbear:
If he was born Catholic, why did he marry a Jew?

Maybe he loved her? Maybe they got drunk and he knocked her up? Maybe she had a ton of cash and he wanted to get his hands on it? Maybe he had a fetish for Jews? Maybe his father was a virulent anti-semite and he wanted to really annoy his father because he hated his father? There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe his bride was not a Jew?

Nickidewbear:
Also, why did he fall out with his parents for converting?

You only know that he fell out with his parents, not why he fell out with them. Given that they were married as Catholics, it's rather unlikely that they would have objected to him being a Catholic.

Nickidewbear:
Why did his son and grandson marry Jews?

See above. There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe their brides were not Jews?

Reply    Quote
Magdalena  Photos: 1  ♀Edited by: Magdalena  Today, 11:39am     #

Nickidewbear:
By the way, a Jewish Danilovich named Anton (as if Jews can't have Polish names):


You keep quoting these JewishGen records... and I agree, these people have some similar surnames to the ones in your family, and they did exist. There is only one problem here: how do you prove that they were related to you in any way? Simply having the same surname and living in roughly the same area is not much proof one way or the other. My paternal grandparents had the same surname as a very wealthy szlachta family living in their area, but they were not related to them at all - they were their freed serfs (this is just an example, I am not trying to imply anything about who your ancestors were by this).

As you know, Jews were made to start using surnames around the start of the 19th century, and many of them took the surnames that were popular in the general populace surrounding them. This is another reason not to trust in surname alone. You could be looking for Polish ancestors with a name like Złotopolski and find out you are Jewish, as well as think you might be Jewish and come across gentiles. As you said, it's not cut and dried at all.

This is why you need to look for further, more detailed info than that, is all I'm saying. I will repeat myself once again: the marriage certificate is not proof of your Jewish origin and I think you are starting to read too much into it, like "could 'priest' actually mean 'rabbi'" etc. If it were a rabbi marrying them, don't you think he would have written the certificate in Yiddish and kept the records in the Synagogue or some such place?

Another important clue: the certificate I translated clearly states that all of the participants were illiterate. As far as I know, all Jewish boys were taught to read and write? Wouldn't at least one of them be able to sign the certificate? "Illiterate" and "Polish-speaking" screams Catholic peasants to me.

For all I know, you might be Jewish, and I frankly couldn't care less one way or the other; but this particular document does nothing to prove that. I would be looking for late baptisms, intermarriages, typically Jewish first names in your family's records (not any and all Jewish records that fit the general area though).

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 04:23pm  #

pam:

Nickidewbear:And how do I know? She's not one of these people that I can exactly trust.

I am also telling you that the sentence was translated correctly. But you obviously don't want to take my word for that either.
As for whether you can trust Magdalena, I notice you accepted without question her translation of the marriage certificate, so why would you doubt her translation of that sentence? Because it doesn't fit in with what you thought it meant? Magdalena is also a professional translator,so why would she put her reputation on the line giving you an inaccurate translation that anyone with any knowledge of Polish could pick up on as being wrong? I think you are doing her an injustice here.


I told you why. Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though." So, I did see something which I believed suspect

Nickidewbear:Nickidewbear:Then why do I get so many hits saying that is reliable for the basic gist?



I use it for translation of a few words here and there.
When it comes to sentences, in my opinion it's more often wrong than right.


Your opinion seems to contradict with the evidence, though; and then I get the rapsheet when I bring up evidence that points to something? I'm sorry for you that I'm not the mold-fitting Jew; and if something seems questionable and agenda pushed, I'm going to bring it up.


I am not interested in what other users of Google Translate think Nicki. I am telling you that on the many occasions that I have used it in the past, it was inaccurate and unreliable which is why I rarely use it these days. Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
I don't have any axe to grind with you Nicki. Whether you are Jewish or not doesn't actually interest me.
I spoke up only because Magdalena's translation is correct, and from initially thanking her for her translation of the marriage certificate, you are now condemning someone who tried to help you as a liar.
I don't think that's very fair.


I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim. I've even had to submit corrections. What I resent, too, is the implication that I'm stupid about it. "Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim."

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Edited by: Nickidewbear  Today, 04:36pm  #

Magdalena:
You keep quoting these JewishGen records... and I agree, these people have some similar surnames to the ones in your family, and they did exist. There is only one problem here: how do you prove that they were related to you in any way? Simply having the same surname and living in roughly the same area is not much proof one way or the other. My paternal grandparents had the same surname as a very wealthy szlachta family living in their area, but they were not related to them at all - they were their freed serfs (this is just an example, I am not trying to imply anything about who your ancestors were by this).

As you know, Jews were made to start using surnames around the start of the 19th century, and many of them took the surnames that were popular in the general populace surrounding them. This is another reason not to trust in surname alone. You could be looking for Polish ancestors with a name like Złotopolski and find out you are Jewish, as well as think you might be Jewish and come across gentiles. As you said, it's not cut and dried at all.

This is why you need to look for further, more detailed info than that, is all I'm saying. I will repeat myself once again: the marriage certificate is not proof of your Jewish origin and I think you are starting to read too much into it, like "could 'priest' actually mean 'rabbi'" etc. If it were a rabbi marrying them, don't you think he would have written the certificate in Yiddish and kept the records in the Synagogue or some such place?

Another important clue: the certificate I translated clearly states that all of the participants were illiterate. As far as I know, all Jewish boys were taught to read and write? Wouldn't at least one of them be able to sign the certificate? "Illiterate" and "Polish-speaking" screams Catholic peasants to me.

For all I know, you might be Jewish, and I frankly couldn't care less one way or the other; but this particular document does nothing to prove that. I would be looking for late baptisms, intermarriages, typically Jewish first names in your family's records (not any and all Jewish records that fit the general area though).


All I'm saying is that they may have been considered "illiterate" because they were not literate in Polish. Many Jews did not speak what they considered treif or goyische leshonot. Also, we don't have a family tree that traces beyond the 1700s. When they went to Lipsk, they may have remarried as "ba'alim teshuvah" who were "ba'alim b'lashon hakodesh. I just wanted to make sure that I am getting an honest translation because of what has happened in the past and what you are saying here.

Please understand that I am not ungrateful, and that I just don't take everything at face value. I apologize for any point at which I got contentious and went over the line in the way that I raised my question, and I am grateful for the translation.

PS As for Harry:

Harry:
Maybe he loved her? Maybe they got drunk and he knocked her up? Maybe she had a ton of cash and he wanted to get his hands on it? Maybe he had a fetish for Jews? Maybe his father was a virulent anti-semite and he wanted to really annoy his father because he hated his father? There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe his bride was not a Jew?


When you, Harry, make statements like that, you shatter your credibility altogether. There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement. Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.

Reply    Quote
Harry   ♂Today, 04:48pm     #

Nickidewbear:
I told you why.

Saying that Magda is lying isn't going to make your ancestors Jewish. The only thing it's going to do is decrease the chances that anybody will help you with translations in the future.

Nickidewbear:
Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though."

Your question has now been repeatedly answered. Unfortunately the documentary evidence does not fit your hypothesis; that means you need to re-assess your hypothesis, not claim that the translator is lying.

Nickidewbear:
I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.

Run what your cousin said through google translate: "Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy" http://translate.google.pl/#pl/en/Mysle%20ze%20tak%20a%20nawet%20 napewno%20to%20sa%20katolicy "I think that so even sure these are Catholics"

Nickidewbear:
There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement.

There is exactly as much evidence that they married for love as there is that they did shidduch, i.e. absolutely none. However, there is documentation which strongly suggests that they did not did shidduch, i.e. their marriage certificate.

Nickidewbear:
 Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.

Let me guess, the 'evidence that she was a Jew is that she married somebody you claim was a Jew and the 'evidence' that he was a Jew is that he married somebody you claim was a Jew, right?

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 06:10pm  #

Harry:
Nickidewbear:I told you why.
Saying that Magda is lying isn't going to make your ancestors Jewish. The only thing it's going to do is decrease the chances that anybody will help you with translations in the future.


I already apologized, and you look like a fool for rehashing it.

Nickidewbear:Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though."
Your question has now been repeatedly answered. Unfortunately the documentary evidence does not fit your hypothesis; that means you need to re-assess your hypothesis, not claim that the translator is lying.


Actually, it does. I'd hate to be you right now because you're ignoring how far Maćkowa Ruda is from Lipsk and Krasne . If a condition for their freedom was to marry Catholic for their freedom, they were going to do it in an out-of-the-way town where the "rabbi"s would never be the wiser.

Nickidewbear:I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
Run what your cousin said through google translate: "Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy" http://translate.google.pl/#pl/en/Mysle%20ze%20tak%20a%20nawet%20 napewno%20to%20sa%20katolicy "I think that so even sure these are Catholics"


It said, ""Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy no ale tylko tyle znalazlem:)"." Nice try, though.

Nickidewbear:There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement.
There is exactly as much evidence that they married for love as there is that they did shidduch, i.e. absolutely none. However, there is documentation which strongly suggests that they did not did shidduch, i.e. their marriage certificate.


Actually, the documentation does suggest shidduch. Nice try, though.

Nickidewbear: Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.
Let me guess, the 'evidence that she was a Jew is that she married somebody you claim was a Jew and the 'evidence' that he was a Jew is that he married somebody you claim was a Jew, right?


You clearly didn't pay attention, did you? This is why I ignore you. You cherrypick evidence for your convenience and then ignore evidence that I bring up, and then tell me that I'm cherrypicking. I'm going to tell you again, whether or not you give a darn, that she had Jewish cousins named Nik and Vil'gel'm, that her cousin Rochla was listed as "Hebrew", that her cousin Shmuil Morgovich died in Stakliskes and that (thus) her birthdate of June 26, 1882 actually checks out, that Jews did not intermarry in those days unless they wanted severe reprecussions, and that people converted "up" and not "down" in those days unless they wanted severe reprecussions (and, in fact, many of the gerim known as Subbotniks themselves became gerim Anusimbecause of that).

Don't expect me to read or respond to your posts in the future. I keep letting you get to me, and to do so is a mistake on my part.


[Updated exchange. By the way, Wigry is not even in the same parish.] Thank you for proving my point, Magdalena.]



ShawnH   ♂Today, 06:28pm     #

Nickidewbear:
It said, ""Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy no ale tylko tyle znalazlem:)"." Nice try, though.

Nicki, when I put that phrase above (in its entirety) I get the following:

"I think that so even sure these are not Catholics but only so much I found"

Can you translate that for me? It makes no sense whatsoever to me. I wouldn't trust Google Translate as far as I could throw it. Especially if it has any colloquial Polish in it.

Reply    Quote
Magdalena  Photos: 1  ♀Today, 06:34pm     #

Nickidewbear:
Actually, it does. I'd hate to be you right now because you're ignoring how far Maćkowa Ruda is from Lipsk and Krasne . If a condition for their freedom was to marry Catholic for their freedom, they were going to do it in an out-of-the-way town where the "rabbi"s would never be the wiser.


Actually, if the certificate is anything to go by, they got married at Wigry (not such a very out-of-the-way place at all):

http://wigry.diecezja.elk.pl/obszar-parafii.html
(area of the Parish - Maćkowa Ruda is included)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?client=tmpg&de pth=1&hl=en&langpair=pl|en&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www .wigry.pro/&usg=ALkJrhgQ08ejbeBelHdDJXgO9ul7ih3UjQ

Reply    Quote
lunacy   ♀Today, 07:20pm     #

The problem is that your cousin didn't use any punctuation marks etc., correctly it should look like: "Myślę, że tak, a nawet na pewno to są katolicy, no ale tylko tyle znalazłem". Your cousin (male as I can see) was probably writing too hastily - or was it a quick message on the phone? Classic, sadly too many Polish people don't use punctuation nor Polish characters when writing quickly. Don't trust google translate too much, as Polish is gramatically a very complex language and google just can't translate correctly either from or to Polish (especially long sentences, short or one-word phrases are usually correct).
An experiment for you: translate there this very simple sentence: "Byłam tam z dwiema paniami". [Byłam is a female form of "być"="to be" in a past tense and that sentence means "I was there with two ladies" - where "I" is a woman.] Now copy the result and try to translate that sentence back to Polish. What did you get? Does it look the same as original?

I already saw that google translate has problems with the word "no" in Polish, which is actually untranslatable - it's an informal [common language] pause-word that is often used to emphasize the word/phrase that follows it. The most simple examples: we say "no tak" when we agree with something = we emphasize "tak" (english: yes), we scream "no nie!" in anger or sadness to emphasize "nie" (english: no) when we e.g. see something wrong. We also often keep saying "no... no... no..." when listening to someone and want him/her to continue (it often happens during phone conversations - to make the caller sure we're listening and keeping up with the story).

So, your cousin, male, wrote: "I think that yes, even certainly they are Catholics, but that's all I found" - "no" was to emphasize the fact that it was all he found.

The priest in the certificate - "ksiądz" or "ks." in short - is certainly Christian. If that was a rabbi, a word "rabin" would be used.

I don't want to interfere in this topic too much, but those particular language details are very obvious and simple. Nickidewbear - if you don't have the trust in yourself for the answers you got, why don't you start learning Polish yourself?

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 07:38pm  #

lunacy:
The problem is that your cousin didn't use any punctuation marks etc., correctly it should look like: "Myślę, że tak, a nawet na pewno to są katolicy, no ale tylko tyle znalazłem". Your cousin (male as I can see) was probably writing too hastily - or was it a quick message on the phone? Classic, sadly too many Polish people don't use punctuation nor Polish characters when writing quickly. Don't trust google translate too much, as Polish is gramatically a very complex language and google just can't translate correctly either from or to Polish (especially long sentences, short or one-word phrases are usually correct).
An experiment for you: translate there this very simple sentence: "Byłam tam z dwiema paniami". [Byłam is a female form of "być"="to be" in a past tense and that sentence means "I was there with two ladies" - where "I" is a woman.] Now copy the result and try to translate that sentence back to Polish. What did you get? Does it look the same as original?

I already saw that google translate has problems with the word "no" in Polish, which is actually untranslatable - it's an informal [common language] pause-word that is often used to emphasize the word/phrase that follows it. The most simple examples: we say "no tak" when we agree with something = we emphasize "tak" (english: yes), we scream "no nie!" in anger or sadness to emphasize "nie" (english: no) when we e.g. see something wrong. We also often keep saying "no... no... no..." when listening to someone and want him/her to continue (it often happens during phone conversations - to make the caller sure we're listening and keeping up with the story).

So, your cousin, male, wrote: "I think that yes, even certainly they are Catholics, but that's all I found" - "no" was to emphasize the fact that it was all he found.

The priest in the certificate - "ksiądz" or "ks." in short - is certainly Christian. If that was a rabbi, a word "rabin" would be used.

I don't want to interfere in this topic too much, but those particular language details are very obvious and simple. Nickidewbear - if you don't have the trust in yourself for the answers you got, why don't you start learning Polish yourself?


I just wanted to make sure, and I already apologized for what I needed to apologize. I also already said that I accept the certificate. How when I bring up evidence is ignored, but I'm cherrypicked. How convenient.

Reply    Quote
lunacy   ♀Today, 07:41pm     #

Wow. You're not cherrypicked by anyone. I just wanted to help and explain the Polish "no", because the sentence written by your cousin caused such a buzz and ShawnH asked for translation.

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 07:53pm  #

lunacy:
Wow. You're not cherrypicked by anyone. I just wanted to help and explain the Polish "no", because the sentence written by your cousin caused such a buzz and ShawnH asked for translation.


Then how come you conveniently ignored that I already apologized, for example? I was very explicit in saying that "I apologize for any point at which I got contentious and went over the line in the way that I raised my question, and I am grateful for the translation." Also, I am cherrypicked. That's very obvious, and I didn't mean by you at all up until this point. I meant by people like Harry. Also, I kept bringing up the Andruleviches, etc., and that was conveniently ignored.


Saturday, January 25, 2014

Hungary, the Holocaust, And the Russian Pale

As quite a few have requested, Hungary is hopefully starting to work on curbing or eradicating its Anti Semitism (for the time being. After all, (יהוה (ב''ה warned that all nations but for Israel and the remnants of every other nation would come to end.). After all (as at least some people have learned, and I think because of בני אנוסים like me), Hungary was a hub for אנוסים from the Warszawa, Radom, and Lodz Foc(z)kos to (as I found out recently) some Andreloviches (which surprised me) and the Trudnyaks (who, as an 1811 baptism record indicates, originally came from Krakow gubernia after they had already allegedly fled Jablunka in Moravia), to openly-Jewish Jews like the Rusznaks and Uszinskys (and the Uszinskys did indeed sneak out of the Russian Pale and/or Congress Poland into Saros megye—I just don't know exactly when or from where). Incidentally, I think that "Jablunka" was actually "Jablonka" in Nowy Targ—as Great-Great-Granddad Trudnyak (ז''ל) claimed to be born in Kacwin, and his wife (ז''ל) claimed to be born in Lapsze Nizne and resided in Nowa Biala before she left for New Jersey.

Even though Hungary forced all Jews to have surnames by 1787 and had nominal religious freedom by 1868, it was actually a hub for escaping openly-Jewish Jews and אנוסים. It was also a hub for those who became אנוסים in Hungary and stayed there. Even Wikipedia, for example, begrudges that the Hungarian city of Aranyida (now Zlata Idka, Slovakia) is "almost entirely Slovak in ethnicity". The begrudgement was written when the Wikipedia page, which was last edited on September 17th of 2013, was first written on September 15, 2006. So, even Wikipedia concedes that some Non-Slovakian ethnic groups reside there, and has done so since 2006—long before I knew who the Foczkos and Rusznaks really were—and that אנוסים and בני אנוסים resided in an "almost entirely Slovak" small town must really wrangle them, since (as I've learned from experience) they don't like אנוסים and בני אנוסים, or יהודים משיחיים (especially יהודים משיחיים  who are בני אנוסים).

By the way, Kacwin is "Kaczvin" or "Kacvin"; Lapsze Nizne is "Alsolapos"; Jablonka is just Jablonka, and Nowa Biala is Ujbela. As for Saros megye, that covered a broad range of Slovakia and Hungary. Also, notice that the Trudnyaks allegedly fled from Moravia in the Austrian Empire into Hungary (before it was a part of Austria Hungary), the Foczkos and Uszinskys fled in Hungary, and Michael and Anna Munkova Trudnyak (my Trudnyak great-great-grandparents) claimed to be born in Polish-Slovakian Hungarian small towns (and to be fair, Anna Munkova did reside in Nowa Biala and was named after her Levoca [Locse]-born and -baptized sister. Mihaly Trudnyak, however, was baptized in the Nagy hub of Terezvarosi, Budapest—and the Nagys were אנוסים who were far from Kacwin, and certainly not in the Austrian part of Austrian Hungary at any time!).

In conclusion, Hungary (at least for the time being) is hopefully becoming the country to whose dependencies and proper אנוסים and open Jews fled, and where quite a few אנוסים who became אנוסים stayed. 

Monday, January 6, 2014

Submission For Essay Contest As Sponsored By the Galilee Center for Studies in Jewish-Christian Relations

Jews, Christians, and Religious Persecution—and My Own Family
            My name is Nicole Victoria Czarnecki, and I am set to graduate with a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Political Science. I am to be counted as having graduated in December of 2013, provided that I am able to pass a class which I had trouble completing over the semester. To make a long story short, I was recovering from surgery which I had in July, and my granddad died on the weekend before the exam for the class with which I had difficulty.
            Speaking of my granddad, I had found out the fact that he is the son of a pogrom survivor, about which he was not happy. That fact bothered him, and he hid it from me and his other grandchildren for years. He also changed his story from that we are somehow related to Stefan Czarniecki, to something along the lines of “If we had any Jewish blood, I don’t know about it.” He never outrightly admitted that we are Jewish, although he did have very-Jewish wishes for when he died. His obituary reads, in part:
“Visitation with the family will be held at Singleton's Funeral Home, 1 2nd Ave. SW, Glen Burnie, MD 21061 on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 from 3:00-5:00PM and 7:00-9:00PM. Services will be held on Thursday, December 19, 2013 at 11:00AM at Holy Trinity Catholic Church, 126 Dorsey Rd., Glen Burnie, MD 21061. Private Interment at Glen Haven Cemetery, Glen Burnie, MD. In lieu of flowers, the family has requested donations be made to either of the following organizations: NCEON, 305 5th Avenue SE, Glen Burnie, MD 20161, or H.O.P.E. for All, P.O. Box 1548, Glen Burnie, MD 21060…”
            As I remember, having a visitation was expressly against his wishes. In fact, as my Aunt Mary recalled to me, he had expressed that he wanted to either have a funeral without calling hours beforehand or be cremated. He did, however, get to keep his wishes of having tzedekah done in his name and being buried in a non-Catholic cemetery.
            The cremation wishes, meanwhile, probably come from the fact that his wife’s—my grandmother’s—cousins were murdered in Auschwitz, and he perhaps felt guilty about that. He also may have had cousins who were murdered in the Holocaust, as an e-mail from my granduncle Tony reads:
“In mid 1960's the Polish family asked the American family to deed the farm to them since the Americans would not be returning.  One hundred twenty nine (129) signatures were required from the American family members to complete the transfer, because under Polish law, all living survivors of Julian were an heir to the property.”
            Before the mid 1960s, our side of the family was not talking to the side of the family whom stayed in what eventually became Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and Russia. In fact, they were quite angry at Great-Granddad Czarnecki’s parents, Julian John “Felix” and Alexandria Alice Andrulewicz Czarnecki, for being Anusim during the pogroms. For Alexandria’s family, however, being Anusi was nothing new. This is because some Andrulevičuses had become Anusim beforehand, and Alexandria’s branch was among the last of the Andrulevičuses to become such. In fact, some Andrulevičuses—the family of whom carried variants of “Andrulevičuses” such as “Andrulewicz”, “Andralowitz”, and “Andrulevich”—continued to identify as Jewish even while they remained Catholic.
            For example, Jacob L. Androlowicz, who served in World War Two, was counted among wounded Jewish soldiers. His wounded-soldier card reads as follows:

            He was buried in a Catholic cemetery when he died in 1974, and his gravestone reads “Jacob Androlowicz”. As for his cousin Alexandria’s family (Great-Granddad Czarnecki’s branch), they were among the Andrulevičuses who were not open about being Jewish, although they did observe some minhag v’nusach. For example, there was no “Mary” among Alexandria’s daughters—they were named Regina, Alexandria Alice, and Cecelia. In fact, the first “Mary” in Alexandria’s line was my aunt Mary, who was named for her grandmothers—Mary Trudnak Czarnecki (the daughter of Anusim Mihály “Michael” and Anna Amalia Munková “Anna Monka” Trudniak) and Marysia “Mary” Elizabeth Rusnak Gaydos (the daughter of Anusim András Stef “Andrew Stephen” and Juliana Foczková “Julia Fosko” Rusnak).
Given that the Andrulewicz, Czarnecki (originally “Czernecki”), Trudnak (originally “Trudnyak”), Monka (“Munka”), Rusnak (originally “Rusznak”), Fosko (originally “Foczko”), and other families of Alexandria’s grandson and in-law daughter (Joan Adele Czarnecki née Gaydos) were Anusim Ashkenazim, how they observed some minhag Sefardi surprised me. I suspected, therefore, that the Andrulewiczes et. al. had Sefardic heritage and were well aware of what their Sefardic ancestors suffered in Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Holland. I turned out to be correct, as my dad’s AncestryDNA autosomal DNA test shows that Dad has 1% Iberian Peninsular DNA:


In fact, my great-granddad Anthony Czarnecki was named for Anthony Claret of Spain when he was baptized. I suspected this—and was able to confirm my suspicion per Dad’s DNA results[1]—because, as I found out, Anthony Claret was born on October 24th, the same date (even though not in the same year) as the birthdate of my great-granddad.
As I mentioned beforehand, Great-Granddad Czarnecki was a pogrom survivor. He was born on October 24, 1904 in Cumań, Wołyn, Rusia (now Tsuman, Volyns’ka Oblast in the Ukraine). At the time, his mother was en route from or to visiting a cousin named Vil’gel’m Andrulevich. According to Hebcal.com and given Vil’gel’m lived in Buzhanka, Zvenigorodka uyezd (now Tsuman in the Ukraine’s Cherkas’ka Oblast), she was visiting Vil’gel’m to celebrate either HaRosh-HaChodesh Cheshvan 5665 (since she lived in Lipsk nad Bierbzą, Suwałki Gubernia with her husband, and she would not have been able to visit on the 1st of Cheshvan) or the 15th of Cheshvan (since Tanakh reads, “Blow the horn at the new moon, at the full moon for our feast-day.”[2]). Since she gave birth to her son on 15th Cheshvan, however, that she was visiting Vil’gelm to celebrate Rosh Chodesh seems more likely.
After all, the Andrulevičuses were originally Orthodox, and at least one branch—the Andrelewitzes—remained so throughout the 1900s. The Andrulevičuses were Litvakn Yidn who took Tanakh and Talmud seriously. In fact, one cousin—Rochla Andrelewtiz—identified herself as “Hebrew” and her dad as “Gitla Andrelewitz”. They had no aversion to identifying as Jewish or taking identifiably-Yiddish names.

Then came the times of Anti Semitism in the Russian Pale and the Congress of Poland. For Alexandria’s branch, the times were the era of the pogroms in and around Lipsk nad Biebrzą. As my granduncle Tony wrote:
“I don't know who came with the group to America.  It seems that there were only a few family members and friends.  These people mostly settled in NE PA.  Your Great Grandfather had a few cousins living within 50 miles of Wilkes-Barre…There were several "friends" in Sugar Notch and the area that would periodically return to Lisco Poland to visit family and mail was occasionally received by them from family in Poland.  One of the friends who lived in Sugar Notch would bring pictures of Great Grandpop's family to share with him.  Since he left at a young age, he didn't recognize anyone but as I recall they all had names of the people in the pictures on the back.
“The move from Poland was permanent.  There was never any talk of returning.  Not even for a visit…
“I never seen nor did anyone mention anything special brought from Poland.  A friend from Sugar Notch, Mrs. Bertha Wawrzyn, visited Poland every few years to see her family and would visit the family while there.  All she ever brought back were photos that she took of the Polish Czarnecki's…
“There was very little discussion of the Polish life and family.  Usually, when there was, it was a brief mention of the farm that was left behind.  There did not seem to be any regrets about leaving for a better life.  After all , they settled among Polish, Slavic, Hungarian, Lithuanian, and Ukrainian people just like themselves.  Similar language, similar customs, similar faces, houses, churches, etc.  But life was much better than on the farm.  They were quite happy in America and much better off.  The motherland, Poland, was far off and just a memory, not to be forgotten but no regrets for leaving either.
“Periodically a church pastor would run a heritage trip back to Poland for a group.  Very few of those who immigrated would return.  Occasionally someone "in the family" in America would join a relative for the return trip, Usually meeting the Polish or Slovak relatives for the first time and occasionally maintaining a letter writing relationship afterwards.  This DID NOT happen in our family… 
“Bertha's photos which came after the trips were the only contact until they asked for the deed to be changed in the mid 1960's.
“There was no special items from Poland that were kept by the family that I know of.  They came with little and acquired everything they had in America.  Over the years all traces of Poland disappeared.  They were now AMERICANS and wanted to be known as such…..”
            The more that I researched and talked to family members, the more that what happened became quite evident: the Andrulewiczes, Czerneckis, and other families (e.g., the families of Great-Granddad’s grandmothers—the Morgiewiczes and the Daniłowiczes) were very unhappy about their family members giving up their Jewish faith at the hands of Czar Nicholas the Second and the Polish and Russian Churches. Therefore, their son Julian and their daughter Alexandria left for Sugar Notch, Pennsylvania, and blended in there by pretending to be Polish-Lithuanian Catholics.
            This did not mean the end of trouble for Great-Granddad, though. In fact, his wanting to marry a Jewish Catholic—Mary Trudnak by name—extremely upset his mother, who did not believe in anything other than shidduch or marrying fellow Yidn. Marrying who she considered to be a meshumadah—since Great-Grandma, as I remember and as Aunt Mary told me, was a genuine Jewish Catholic—was Great-Granddad’s way of asking for trouble. In fact, as Great-Grandma told Aunt Mary, Great-Granddad’s and Great-Grandma’s doctor warned them to leave Great-Great-Grandma’s house before Great-Grandma could have a mental breakdown.
            Great-Great-Grandma died of nephritis on April 6, 1936, shortly before my granddad was born. Nonetheless, the damage had already been done, and Pop-Pop was not born into a stable family or raised in a stable household. In truth, Pop-Pop became just like his grandmother, whose son became just like her. My granduncle Tony even once quoted the following about my great-granddad, my granddad, and my dad: “Like father, like son.”
            In sum, the persecution that the Poles and Russians enacted against my paternal granddad’s dad and his family affected my granddad’s family to consider their Jewishness a dark secret, and a secret that—by becoming and being kept a secret—affected much of the dysfunction in our family. As HaShem warned through Moshe, “HaShem is slow to anger, and plenteous in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation.”[3] This has certainly been the case in our family, and this has caused me to do what Great-Grandma wanted to do with Aunt Mary at the end of her 93 years—“talk about it”.
            I myself will never commit a chillul HaShem by hiding my Jewish heritage and perverting my Jewish heritage into a secret that will destroy my children and grandchildren. While I myself am a Jewish Christian and will never give up Yeshua (since I became a Christian long before I knew that I am Jewish, and I believe that being a Christian is fully compatible with being Jewish), I understand why my granddad was an Anusi up until his dying day. I also know that my dad, if he was honest with himself, would be Reform Jewish (much to the chagrin of his dad’s late paternal grandma).
            I can also see the effects of Polish and Russian Anti Semitism that was committed in the name of Yeshua, and know that HaShem would have this to see about the Poles and Russians who claimed to be Christians in order to hurt my family:
“And the L-rd said: Forasmuch as this people draw near, and with their mouth and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear of Me is a commandment of men learned by rote”.[4]


Works Cited
Ancestry.com. New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957[database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
“. U.S., WWII Jewish Servicemen Cards, 1942-1947 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.
“. Web: New Jersey, Find A Grave Index, 1664-2012 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2012.
Czarnecki, Anthony J., Jr. "RE: Family Research Project For School." Message to the author. Oct.-Nov. 2012. E-mail.
Czarnecki, Gregory M. "DNA Tests for Ethnicity & Genealogical DNA testing at AncestryDNA." DNA Tests for Ethnicity & Genealogical DNA testing at AncestryDNA. http://dna.ancestry.com/#/ethnicity/85CDAAEB-7A37-4BAF-8B86-86BA65C81CB2 (accessed January 6, 2014).
“. "Jack Czarnecki." The Capital Gazette. Legacy.com, Dec.-Jan. 2013. Web. 06 Jan. 2014. .
JewishGen.org, comp. Russia, Duma Voter Lists, 1906-1907 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008.
The JPS Tanakh. 1917 ed. N.p.: n.p., 1917. Jewish Virtual Library. The American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise, 2013. Web. 6 Jan. 2014. .
Sadinoff, Danny, and Michael J. Radwin. "Hebrew Date Converter." Hebrew Date Converter. HebCal.com, 1999. Web. 06 Jan. 2014. .




[1] Which, according to Ancestry.com, could be updated. The screenshot results come from AncestryDNA Version 2.0..
[3] Numbers 14:18, JPS. Obtained via Jewish Virtual Library.
[4] Isaiah 29:13, JPS. Obtained via Jewish Virtual Library.