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Wednesday, February 26, 2014

"Tricia Covel Drunk"? Would I Be Surprised?

The short answer is "no". The longer answer goes a little like this:


  1. Toby Keith has an alcohol problem.
  2. He had his gallbladder removed, and gallbladder issues can be linked to alcoholism.
  3. Given that Toby Keith has an alcohol problem and that Tricia is married to him, she could easily be influenced to have an alcohol problem.
  4. Therefore, I would not be surprised if Tricia Covel was caught drunk.


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Tuesday, February 25, 2014

"If you found out that the life you know up till now had been a virtual reality, multi-player video game, would you change the way you live at all?"

As if that hasn't been my life in some respects? Let me explain: I was told that I was the descendant of a Pole who came here, married Mary Trudnak (a Lithuanian), served in Korea, and died of Black Lung. We were also related to Stefan Czarniecki, went the story. On Grandma's side, meanwhile, we were Czechoslovakian, we were told.

Nothing could've been further from the remote truth about the "Pole who came here...." or the "Czechoslovakian"s. Let me begin with Anthony Czarnecki, Sr.; then let me move to the Trudnaks and the "Czechoslovakian"s for just a minute.

Born in Tsuman, Ukraine (then Cuman, Poland) to Aleksjondria Alicja Andrulewiczowna Czerniecka, Antoni Jan Czerniecki joined his dad (Julian) in Sugar Notch, Pennsylvania after he and his family became Crypto Jews during the pogroms in Lipsk nad Biebrza (where Julian's dad and mom, "Antoni" and "Katarzyna", had a farm after they fled Krasne and returned to the Judaism that they'd been forced to leave behind in order to gain freedom from serfdom).

This was nothing to the Andrulevicus (Andrulewicz, etc.) and Morgovich (Margiewicz, etc.) families, except that they were of course unhappy about it. However, the Czernieckis and the Danilowiczes ("Katarzyna"'s family, and somehow family to the Andrulevicuses) blew a lid (so to speak). After having to marry as Catholics in Mackowa Ruda in order to gain their freedom, "Antoni" and "Katarzyna" wanted their son and in-law daughter out, out, and out!

As my granduncle Tony first explained (when I tricked him into giving me information for a "school project"):

"Periodically a church pastor would run a heritage trip back to Poland for a group.  Very few of those who immigrated would return.  Occasionally someone "in the family" in America would join a relative for the return trip, Usually meeting the Polish or Slovak relatives for the first time and occasionally maintaining a letter writing relationship afterwards.  This DID NOT happen in our family.

"There was not very much correspondence with the Polish family.  Only an infrequent letter.  There were no exchanges other than through the Polish Church which would have clothing drives and send clothes to Poland in general, but not to specific family members.  Bertha's photos which came after the trips were the only contact until they asked for the deed to be changed in the mid 1960's."

So, we remained Crypto Jews and lived in America, and without helping them during the Holocaust (because they didn't want our help). Julian did donate to a "Free Poland" fund, though. However, Ignacy Andrulewicz did return and remain a Crypto Jew. Some other Andrulewiczes also returned. In fact, cousin Bronislawa Andrulewiczowna Pozniakowa, of blessed memory, was murdered in the Shoah and had a son who fought against the Soviets.

Ignacy, like most Haredi and some Orthodox Jews (even Crypto-Haredi and -Orthodox Jews) of his day, did not believe in returning to Israel until Moshiach came (He was buried as a Catholic in Soviet Poland because he did not believe in returning to the "treif medina" that the U.S. was viewed as. Some of his children returned to the U.S., though.).

Not all of the branches of the Andrulewiczes became Crypto Jews, though. For example, Gitla Andrelewitz's branch didn't (Rochla's dad was Gitla.). Even so, Aleksjondria  (now Alexandria Andrulewicz Czarnecki) would not have her son marrying for love, let alone marrying the Believing Jewess who he got pregnant. That Jewess, the daughter of the Crypto-Jewish Mihaly "Michael" and Anna Amalia Munkova "Anna Monka" Trudnak, was Mary Trudnak (Her grandparents were Mihaly and Maria Nagyova Trudnyak, and Samuel and Rosalia Korschova Munka.). Their son was Anthony, Jr. the First, who died two days after he was born.

Their second son, John "Jack" Gregory Czarnecki, was born on May 25, 1936 (and died on December 14, 2013). If you do the timelining here, by the way, you will quickly find out why nobody signed his parents' marriage license, since he was conceived on or about August 25, 1935. He married Joan Gaydos, the daughter of Michael and Mary Rusnak Gaydos, and Mary Rusnak Gaydos' parents were far from Czechoslovakian.

They were Austrian-Hungarian Jews named Andrew and Julia Fosko Rusnak. Andrew came here as Andrej Rusnak, having been born Andras Stef Rusznak. He was the son of Crypto-Jewish Levite Jakab Rusznak (whose dad, Gyorgy, was of the Levitical Kosice Rusznaks) and the Crypto-Jewish Maria Novakova Rusznakova (whose tribe is not known). Jakab's and Maria's parents (Gyorgy "Gyorgy Kvetkovits" and Erzsebet Molnarova Rusznak, and Andrej Novak and an unknown mother) converted within the years of 1848-1876 (Actually, Andrej Novak never converted. He was certainly a witness to the dispensation along with Janos Molnar, and he never converted.).

Julia was a Levite as well, having been born of Crypto-Jewish Levites descended from the Levitical Foczkos of Warszawa, Radom, and Lodz. Her mother, Johanna Hanzokova Foczkova, may have been the granddaughter of a kohen (Her mother was Ilona Lazarova Hanzkova, and "Lazarova" may indicate descent from Ele'azar ben Aharon HaKohen.). Andrew Rusnak knew this and asked Julia to marry him (Don't ever think that Crypto Jews were unintelligent or ignorant, since they knew of their heritage at least to the fifth generation. Andrew was Generation Three, and Julia knew of her heritage even as a Crypto Jew beyond Generation Five. Besides, Julia was the only girl and not named "Maria", "Marysia", or "Mary"!).

Again, though, what we were told? That we were descendants of a Pole who came here, etc.; and we were also Czechoslovakian. There, therefore, is virtual reality and a multi-player game for you! 

Thursday, February 20, 2014

To My Persecutors...

I ask you to examine yourself. Contrary to what you want to think, I mean no harm against you or anyone else. In fact, especially if you claim to be wise, remember that "[r]ebuke is more effective for a wise man
Than a hundred blows on a fool."

This is part of why I am dealing with you. I think about you and I think about others. My actions are not just for me or my benefit. I always dread (read: sadly expect) that someone will eventually try to oppose me. I am not perfect, and I will admit when I am wrong and not walking in integrity. However, I'm right when I'm right, and I'm not right because of me—I'm right when I'm right only because of Christ.

I am not Moses; I am not Jeremiah, and I am not any other of the prophets or righteous people of blessed memories or blessed names—I am not worthy to be even considered among these. Nonetheless, I try to stand up to evil. When I do stand up to evil and you persecute me, I have to ask (as did Moses when our countrymen were persecuting him), "Why do you contend with meWhy do you tempt the Lord?"

Also, why do you glorify the Amaleks—whether or not you mean to do so? The Torah states:

14 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this for a memorial in the book and recount it in the hearing of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.” 15 And Moses built an altar and called its name, The-Lord-Is-My-Banner;[c] 16 for he said, “Because the Lord has sworn: the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.”

The Torah does not state that we are to remember Amalek in any other way or context but in regards to what he did against Israel. We are not to revive him, and we are not to enable any Amalek in this generation. Even when we do Purim readings in the synagogues (Messianic and otherwise), we do not revive or remember Haman. In fact, we make a deliberate effort to drown out his name when we read it.


We rejoice that Haman (Yemach shemo u'zichrono.) cannot hurt us anymore, and we don't want to hear his name. Nonetheless, we don't (or at least we shouldn't) rejoice in the death of the wicked


Another Recipe: The Waste-System Drink

~1 cup of organic cranberry juice
~1 cup of water
~2 tbsp (1/8 cups) of elderberry juice
~4 tbsp (1/4 cups) of milk of magnesia

I put in the milk, the elderberry juice, the water, and the cranberry juice in that order; but the order is up to you. Nonetheless, you have to mix them together like I did (whether you stir, shake, or blend it).

By the way, it tastes like prune juice and works well for people like me with IBS. As for elderberry juice, I hear that that's supposed to support immune-system health. Meanwhile, cranberry juice helps excretory functions. That is all. You're welcome.

Creative Commons License
The Waste-System Drink by Nicole V. Czarnecki is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License.

Wednesday, February 19, 2014

More Than Blogging, Etc.: Learning To Cook

Instead-of-Quinoa-and-Soup (IQS) Pasta (I came up with this when I realized that we had no quinoa—or at least any that I could access at the time—,the chicken broth would not drain from the pasta—and I thus could not make chicken-broth-and-celery-soup; and I used measures based on the containers and packaging for each of the products—e.g., 1/2 cup of shredded cheese makes for one serving of cheese
  1. 1 bag of gluten-free, organic pasta
  2. 1 container of organic chicken broth
  3. 2 cups of organic shredded Parmesan cheese
  4.  ~1 cup of organic sauce
  5. Organic olive oil
  6. 3-4 sticks of organic celery, chopped


  1. Cook the pasta in the chicken broth instead of water, as instructed to do so on the bag.
  2. Put cheese and olive oil into bowl.
  3. Put in pasta (which does not need to be drained) and sauce in bowl.
  4. Put celery pieces in.
  5. Mix thoroughly.
  6. Enjoy!
Makes 3-4 servings (i.e., 1-2 servings per person. e.g., I had two servings; Mom may just want one).

Tuesday, February 11, 2014

My Natural Look With Full Disclosure About Lighting, And...

Why do I care about my natural look? Some people at PolishForums.com wanted to see non-blurry pictures of me to see whether or not I truly look Polish, which I don't (Thank God. :-) ) But hopefully, this helps them and others see that I truly look Jewish. They did concede that I look Western European, though. e.g.:

"Nicki - I'd say you look Spanish or Portuguese. Or maybe Italian? :-) But definitely South/Western European. Also, it's totally not true that ethnic Poles are blonde and blue-eyed - most Poles tend to have various shades of brown(ish) hair and can have all possible eye colours, often grey or brown. Many Polish women dye their hair blonde and that might have fooled you ;-) Of course, many people are blonde, but it's not the standard by any stretch of the imagination. Darker skin tones are not totally uncommon either. Either way, if you lived in Poland you would probably be seen as somewhat "exotic", people would tend to think you have some Spanish or Italian blood, but they would not automatically assume that you were not Polish. The Polish nation is very mixed - the Tartars and Turks, the Italians (Queen Bona), the Dutch (builders of the Żuławy Wiślane dyke system), the French (Napoleonic wars) and many others came to Poland in various periods and settled there :-)"

Remember "John McCoy"? Also, Mom is mostly Western European (Frankish, Gaelic, and Briton) with Ashkenazi Jewish heritage (the Siedenburg-Mueller and Lehr Pundts, for example—and possibly the Farrells, since Native Irish are light-eyed brunettes and the Farrells had red hair. But don't tell, e.g., my cousin Colleen DeBoy that—she got mad when I suggested that the red-haired Farrells (at least on our side), who (for Irish Catholics) had no children named Mary (for instance), may have been Irish Anusim. I can't change science or history, and Ya'akov (z"l) and Esav did have red hair.

PS Unless Sharon can show me the proof that the Farrells had a daughter named Mary, I don't buy it. There was no Mary who was born in 1857 who was recorded on the 1860 Census. Also, she could've been named for her mother (Mary Cassilly O'Farrell) if she did exist.

Sunday, February 9, 2014

"Smile", A Short Story

"I love your smile," Andy told Rich. That was years ago, though. Now he didn't love his smile—or him. He couldn't love his smile; he couldn't love him, and he couldn't love anything or anyone else. No matter how he tried to do so, he just couldn't do so—he had dementia, and the dementia was wearing him down.

One of Andy's best friends came up to Rich one day, when Rich was hunched down from thinking about it. "What's the matter?"

"Andy doesn't love me anymore."

"What? He's always been like a dad figure to you."

"Well, he's sick—just sick."

"Don't talk about about Andy like that—just because you fell out with him doesn't mean that you have to talk about him like that. Do you hear me?"

Rich bit back tears, holding his lower lip with his front teeth as he tried not to cry. "Andy has dementia, sir."

Andy's friend looked stunned. "What?! Andy?....Oh, I'm so sorry."

Nobody but Rich really knew, anyway. Only Rich had gotten the phone call.

"I feel guilty, boy. I can't do it—I just can't do it. I'm so sorry."

"Can't what, sir?"

"Can't love you anymore—and can't love anyone anymore. I'm trying to love, boy. I just can't—I have dementia."

Then the radio blared a Lonestar song in the background. "You can't help how you don't feel, and it doesn't matter why."

Rich bit back tears, thinking a prayer. "Perfect timing, God," he mumbled inside of his head. He then told Andy, "You don't have to explain—I understand."

That phonecall was in the summer. The encounter with Andy's friend was in the fall. The visit with Andy was in the winter, and that's when Rich and Andy's friend played that Lonestar song for Andy.

Then Rich thought to himself what he wanted to tell Andy: "It's like the song says: 'Give me a chance to bow out gracefully...'."

"Go, boy," Andy demanded. Andy knew what Rich wanted: to leave Andy with his friend and go peacefully.

Rich laughed. "Last-minute lucidity; huh, sir?"

"Get out of here, boy." Andy knew that he was dying, and he knew that Rich knew it—and they both knew that they knew it. There was no second guessing and no questioning. Andy was ready to go.

Rich smiled and saluted Andy, a World War Two veteran. "Rest in peace, sir."

Andy then went "in style" after he had kissed Rich on the head and the cheeks—Rich was like a son to Andy, after all. Andy went with his friend beside him as the angels carried him home—and, fittingly, in the winter, for he had been in the winter of his life.

Rich, meanwhile, walked away from Andy's hospital room and down the hall, and he let the tears run down his face and let his pain show.

Information (including copyright information) about "Smile". The author does not intend copyright infringement whatsoever in any way, shape, form, circumstance, fashion or manner.


Thursday, February 6, 2014

I Told You That Something Stinks...

There is  too much coincidence for there to be a coincidence if you ask me. Adam Danilowicz abandoned his sons and married Caroline nee Grabowska in Luzerne County, and he was related to Katarzyna Danilowiczowna Czerniecka? And Katarzyna was the in-law daughter of a Kruszynska, and Rywa Krusznyska in Suwalki married Josel Grabowski in Suwalki? Also, a Wierzbinski married an Andrulewiczowna, and the Andrulewiczes and Danilowiczes are somehow related by blood?

Give me a break. "Coincidence" meir tuchus. Some in my family, at PolishForums, etc. can try to play with me, and I am not stupid. The story unravels more amazingly than I thought! I told you we're Jewish. I told you that I figured out that Great-Great-Granddad Julian's parents were married Roman Catholic in Mackowa Ruda in order to secure their freedom from being peasants, and that they left for Lipsk and returned to Judaism once they could!
"Szlachta" meir tuchus! As I said, some in my family, at PolishForums, etc. have tried to play a not-so-stupid person. Mazel tov to them; they have failed! 




Just because I don't fit someone's (for a lack of a better term) "Jew mold" doesn't mean that I'm not a Jew! As I told a friend, in order for me to be a Jew to them, I would have to have a fully-Jewish mom or have converted to Judaism. It still pisses me off. I even had my dad take an autosomal DNA test to prove that we're Jews.

It is important because I'd like to make aliyah someday and I could get accused of being a Pole posing as a Jew. People have already spread rumors that I'm not a Jew. I've even seen on my blog search feed that people have searched "nickidewbear not jewish". The lie that's probably going around in any case is that I'm a Slavic American descended from Slavic Catholics and szlachta, and that I'm posing as a Jewish American who's descended from Crypto Jews. If the rumors were true, I'd rightly be in trouble. Isn't that my family lied to me for years enough? Well, I'm either lying or I'm not, and the rumor is that I am lying. As I said, isn't that my family lied to me enough? I don't need to be lied to and about further.

I literally feel like Geraldo Rivera—who was lied about by an Anti-Semitic disc jockey who claimed that he was a Jew named Jerry Rivers and posing a Puerto Rican to take advantage of affirmative action—and that dad who was told that his part in his children's creation did not count—"How can you convert to what you are? Do I have to take a DNA test to prove you are my children?"

As I said, I had Dad take a DNA test. It shows West Asian, "Caucus", and Iberian (Sephardic) DNA! And I have the records, etc.. What more do I need?

A Particular Troll On PolishForums.Com and Observations

Firstly, I want to apologize to Magdalena. I guess that I lumped her in with Harry and Jon when she had taken their side and vice versa. When two troublemakers defend someone honest and vice versa, to tell who's honest and who's not gets hard. Secondly, I want to warn you to watch out for Harry and particular (as the exchange below will show). By the way, this guy has denied that Dad has ever abused me and has said that Dad loves me, and he doesn't even know anything other than what I've said—and what does that tell you about him? He denies abuse and falsely defends an abuser, and slanders the abuse victim who would have no reason to lie—and if he wants to talk about evidence, he can look up "Czarnecki v. Czarnecki (2006)" (or whatever the case is called—perhaps "En re Czarnecki" (2006)) in the Howard County, Maryland court system. The verdict was in my and my sister's favor.

Also, I have nothing to hide about my family, etc., regardless of that my family did. As the exchange below will show, my great-great-granddad's parents clearly went out of their way to hide from their ro'eh that they married Roman Catholicly. They went nine hours and 34 minutes away to marry.

No wonder, then, that they would be angry when their son and in-law daughter became Anusim during the pogroms—to them, that their son and in-law daughter would become Anusim after they returned to Judaism and had married Roman Catholicly only to secure their freedom was a slap in the face in their minds. They must've been thinking, "Did you not learn from our mistake? You have committed a chillul HaShem! You have made your lives more important than your nefashot."

Besides, there had already been the January Uprising, and Poles couldn't own land. So, why did Antoni and Katarzyna own a farm in Lipsk? Besides, Julian Danilowicz fled conscription. Poles may have been unlucky, but Jews were worse off:

"Unlike enlightened Jews in the Polish Congress Kingdom who argued for Jewish personal army service to prove their patriotism and eventually to bring them full emancipation, Jewish communal elders throughout the Pale of Settlement had well-grounded doubts about the good will of the Russian authorities. Before the publication of the statute, Jews realized that conscription jeopardized the traditional status of their community. Accordingly, Jews flocked to such tsadikim as Avraham Yehoshu‘a Heshel (d. 1825), seeking intercession with the Almighty. Supported by Hasidic tsadikim and wealthy Jews, they raised funds to bribe state officials, vainly struggling to prevent the law on Jewish conscription from being implemented."

Also, there were "Jew hunts", not Catholic hunts. So, Julian Danilowicz and Julian and Alexandria Czernecki took the course of converting to Roman Catholicism and living as Anusim in the United States. 

By the way, as I type, the exchange is getting worse. I meant "out of the way of Lipsk and Krasne". Maybe I don't apologize to Magdalena after all. Furthermore, there are no random events or coincidences in life (co[inciding]-incidences? Sure. Coincidences? No.)—I just wanted to note that in case anyone else wants to pull the "How do you know that you're related to those Andruleviches?" card, for example.





pam   ♀ ModeratorToday, 10:53am  #

Nickidewbear:
And how do I know? She's not one of these people that I can exactly trust.


I am also telling you that the sentence was translated correctly. But you obviously don't want to take my word for that either.
As for whether you can trust Magdalena, I notice you accepted without question her translation of the marriage certificate, so why would you doubt her translation of that sentence? Because it doesn't fit in with what you thought it meant? Magdalena is also a professional translator,so why would she put her reputation on the line giving you an inaccurate translation that anyone with any knowledge of Polish could pick up on as being wrong? I think you are doing her an injustice here.

Nickidewbear:
Nickidewbear:Then why do I get so many hits saying that is reliable for the basic gist?



I use it for translation of a few words here and there.
When it comes to sentences, in my opinion it's more often wrong than right.


Your opinion seems to contradict with the evidence, though; and then I get the rapsheet when I bring up evidence that points to something? I'm sorry for you that I'm not the mold-fitting Jew; and if something seems questionable and agenda pushed, I'm going to bring it up.


I am not interested in what other users of Google Translate think Nicki. I am telling you that on the many occasions that I have used it in the past, it was inaccurate and unreliable which is why I rarely use it these days. Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
I don't have any axe to grind with you Nicki. Whether you are Jewish or not doesn't actually interest me.
I spoke up only because Magdalena's translation is correct, and from initially thanking her for her translation of the marriage certificate, you are now condemning someone who tried to help you as a liar.
I don't think that's very fair.

Reply    Quote
Harry   ♂Edited by: Harry  Today, 11:16am     #

Nickidewbear:
 I just had a legitimate question: "Why would they fall out with their son if they were Catholic, since he and his wife converted to Catholicism? Also, they didn't fall out until after Great-Granddad was born. Furthermore, why would he have to lie so much on his naturalization, etc. documents?"

Both of those questions were answered above (i.e. there are millions of reasons), you just didn't like the answers, especially given that your preferred answer is directly contradicted by this marriage certificate.

Nickidewbear:
To be honest, I think that someone is mistaken or lying: either Google Translate is or Magdalena is, or Maciej found a document with the same names that Great-Great-Granddad gave but with people who different people.

No, Magda is most certainly not lying to you. Google translate very often produces incorrect translations. It is possible that this document does refer to other people but it's more likely that it does refer to the people you think it refers to. Most probably it is you who is mistaken.

Nickidewbear:
Also, that they married Catholic doesn't preclude them from being Jewish if they are the right people.

You mean that they were so well connected that even though they were Jews they could get married as Catholics but they were not so well connected that they could get a rabbi to come to their tiny village? Interesting interpretation of the facts.

Nickidewbear:
Why would they not mention if the parents were Catholic, too?

Same reason the document didn't mention that they were humans: because it was so obvious!

Nickidewbear:
She, Harry, and Jon have had problems with that my family history doesn't fit the mold for how a Jew's history normally fits.

Nickie, I really do not give a cr@p how your family history fits with anything. I don't believe that there is a 'normal' history for any Jew; please stop lying about me.

Nickidewbear:
she could be lying to me in order to affect me to think something different, since she is fluent in Polish and I have no clue what is being said. So, she could be trying to dupe me.

She tried to help you and because you didn't like what the document says you accuse her of lying to you. I hope you don't expect any help from anybody else with translations in the future.

Nickidewbear:
If he was born Catholic, why did he marry a Jew?

Maybe he loved her? Maybe they got drunk and he knocked her up? Maybe she had a ton of cash and he wanted to get his hands on it? Maybe he had a fetish for Jews? Maybe his father was a virulent anti-semite and he wanted to really annoy his father because he hated his father? There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe his bride was not a Jew?

Nickidewbear:
Also, why did he fall out with his parents for converting?

You only know that he fell out with his parents, not why he fell out with them. Given that they were married as Catholics, it's rather unlikely that they would have objected to him being a Catholic.

Nickidewbear:
Why did his son and grandson marry Jews?

See above. There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe their brides were not Jews?

Reply    Quote
Magdalena  Photos: 1  ♀Edited by: Magdalena  Today, 11:39am     #

Nickidewbear:
By the way, a Jewish Danilovich named Anton (as if Jews can't have Polish names):


You keep quoting these JewishGen records... and I agree, these people have some similar surnames to the ones in your family, and they did exist. There is only one problem here: how do you prove that they were related to you in any way? Simply having the same surname and living in roughly the same area is not much proof one way or the other. My paternal grandparents had the same surname as a very wealthy szlachta family living in their area, but they were not related to them at all - they were their freed serfs (this is just an example, I am not trying to imply anything about who your ancestors were by this).

As you know, Jews were made to start using surnames around the start of the 19th century, and many of them took the surnames that were popular in the general populace surrounding them. This is another reason not to trust in surname alone. You could be looking for Polish ancestors with a name like Złotopolski and find out you are Jewish, as well as think you might be Jewish and come across gentiles. As you said, it's not cut and dried at all.

This is why you need to look for further, more detailed info than that, is all I'm saying. I will repeat myself once again: the marriage certificate is not proof of your Jewish origin and I think you are starting to read too much into it, like "could 'priest' actually mean 'rabbi'" etc. If it were a rabbi marrying them, don't you think he would have written the certificate in Yiddish and kept the records in the Synagogue or some such place?

Another important clue: the certificate I translated clearly states that all of the participants were illiterate. As far as I know, all Jewish boys were taught to read and write? Wouldn't at least one of them be able to sign the certificate? "Illiterate" and "Polish-speaking" screams Catholic peasants to me.

For all I know, you might be Jewish, and I frankly couldn't care less one way or the other; but this particular document does nothing to prove that. I would be looking for late baptisms, intermarriages, typically Jewish first names in your family's records (not any and all Jewish records that fit the general area though).

Reply    Quote
Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 04:23pm  #

pam:

Nickidewbear:And how do I know? She's not one of these people that I can exactly trust.

I am also telling you that the sentence was translated correctly. But you obviously don't want to take my word for that either.
As for whether you can trust Magdalena, I notice you accepted without question her translation of the marriage certificate, so why would you doubt her translation of that sentence? Because it doesn't fit in with what you thought it meant? Magdalena is also a professional translator,so why would she put her reputation on the line giving you an inaccurate translation that anyone with any knowledge of Polish could pick up on as being wrong? I think you are doing her an injustice here.


I told you why. Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though." So, I did see something which I believed suspect

Nickidewbear:Nickidewbear:Then why do I get so many hits saying that is reliable for the basic gist?



I use it for translation of a few words here and there.
When it comes to sentences, in my opinion it's more often wrong than right.


Your opinion seems to contradict with the evidence, though; and then I get the rapsheet when I bring up evidence that points to something? I'm sorry for you that I'm not the mold-fitting Jew; and if something seems questionable and agenda pushed, I'm going to bring it up.


I am not interested in what other users of Google Translate think Nicki. I am telling you that on the many occasions that I have used it in the past, it was inaccurate and unreliable which is why I rarely use it these days. Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
I don't have any axe to grind with you Nicki. Whether you are Jewish or not doesn't actually interest me.
I spoke up only because Magdalena's translation is correct, and from initially thanking her for her translation of the marriage certificate, you are now condemning someone who tried to help you as a liar.
I don't think that's very fair.


I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim. I've even had to submit corrections. What I resent, too, is the implication that I'm stupid about it. "Presuming that you don't speak another language and haven't had occasion to use Google Translate that often, you wouldn't understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim."

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Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Edited by: Nickidewbear  Today, 04:36pm  #

Magdalena:
You keep quoting these JewishGen records... and I agree, these people have some similar surnames to the ones in your family, and they did exist. There is only one problem here: how do you prove that they were related to you in any way? Simply having the same surname and living in roughly the same area is not much proof one way or the other. My paternal grandparents had the same surname as a very wealthy szlachta family living in their area, but they were not related to them at all - they were their freed serfs (this is just an example, I am not trying to imply anything about who your ancestors were by this).

As you know, Jews were made to start using surnames around the start of the 19th century, and many of them took the surnames that were popular in the general populace surrounding them. This is another reason not to trust in surname alone. You could be looking for Polish ancestors with a name like Złotopolski and find out you are Jewish, as well as think you might be Jewish and come across gentiles. As you said, it's not cut and dried at all.

This is why you need to look for further, more detailed info than that, is all I'm saying. I will repeat myself once again: the marriage certificate is not proof of your Jewish origin and I think you are starting to read too much into it, like "could 'priest' actually mean 'rabbi'" etc. If it were a rabbi marrying them, don't you think he would have written the certificate in Yiddish and kept the records in the Synagogue or some such place?

Another important clue: the certificate I translated clearly states that all of the participants were illiterate. As far as I know, all Jewish boys were taught to read and write? Wouldn't at least one of them be able to sign the certificate? "Illiterate" and "Polish-speaking" screams Catholic peasants to me.

For all I know, you might be Jewish, and I frankly couldn't care less one way or the other; but this particular document does nothing to prove that. I would be looking for late baptisms, intermarriages, typically Jewish first names in your family's records (not any and all Jewish records that fit the general area though).


All I'm saying is that they may have been considered "illiterate" because they were not literate in Polish. Many Jews did not speak what they considered treif or goyische leshonot. Also, we don't have a family tree that traces beyond the 1700s. When they went to Lipsk, they may have remarried as "ba'alim teshuvah" who were "ba'alim b'lashon hakodesh. I just wanted to make sure that I am getting an honest translation because of what has happened in the past and what you are saying here.

Please understand that I am not ungrateful, and that I just don't take everything at face value. I apologize for any point at which I got contentious and went over the line in the way that I raised my question, and I am grateful for the translation.

PS As for Harry:

Harry:
Maybe he loved her? Maybe they got drunk and he knocked her up? Maybe she had a ton of cash and he wanted to get his hands on it? Maybe he had a fetish for Jews? Maybe his father was a virulent anti-semite and he wanted to really annoy his father because he hated his father? There are lots of possible reasons, including one which seems to have completely eluded you: maybe his bride was not a Jew?


When you, Harry, make statements like that, you shatter your credibility altogether. There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement. Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.

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Harry   ♂Today, 04:48pm     #

Nickidewbear:
I told you why.

Saying that Magda is lying isn't going to make your ancestors Jewish. The only thing it's going to do is decrease the chances that anybody will help you with translations in the future.

Nickidewbear:
Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though."

Your question has now been repeatedly answered. Unfortunately the documentary evidence does not fit your hypothesis; that means you need to re-assess your hypothesis, not claim that the translator is lying.

Nickidewbear:
I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.

Run what your cousin said through google translate: "Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy" http://translate.google.pl/#pl/en/Mysle%20ze%20tak%20a%20nawet%20 napewno%20to%20sa%20katolicy "I think that so even sure these are Catholics"

Nickidewbear:
There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement.

There is exactly as much evidence that they married for love as there is that they did shidduch, i.e. absolutely none. However, there is documentation which strongly suggests that they did not did shidduch, i.e. their marriage certificate.

Nickidewbear:
 Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.

Let me guess, the 'evidence that she was a Jew is that she married somebody you claim was a Jew and the 'evidence' that he was a Jew is that he married somebody you claim was a Jew, right?

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Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 06:10pm  #

Harry:
Nickidewbear:I told you why.
Saying that Magda is lying isn't going to make your ancestors Jewish. The only thing it's going to do is decrease the chances that anybody will help you with translations in the future.


I already apologized, and you look like a fool for rehashing it.

Nickidewbear:Also, I did question the translation of the certificate by raising a question after that. I said, "I have a question, though."
Your question has now been repeatedly answered. Unfortunately the documentary evidence does not fit your hypothesis; that means you need to re-assess your hypothesis, not claim that the translator is lying.


Actually, it does. I'd hate to be you right now because you're ignoring how far Maćkowa Ruda is from Lipsk and Krasne . If a condition for their freedom was to marry Catholic for their freedom, they were going to do it in an out-of-the-way town where the "rabbi"s would never be the wiser.

Nickidewbear:I even said for the basic gist. I understand that it doesn't translate everything verbatim.
Run what your cousin said through google translate: "Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy" http://translate.google.pl/#pl/en/Mysle%20ze%20tak%20a%20nawet%20 napewno%20to%20sa%20katolicy "I think that so even sure these are Catholics"


It said, ""Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy no ale tylko tyle znalazlem:)"." Nice try, though.

Nickidewbear:There is no evidence of any of that, including the "fetish" statement.
There is exactly as much evidence that they married for love as there is that they did shidduch, i.e. absolutely none. However, there is documentation which strongly suggests that they did not did shidduch, i.e. their marriage certificate.


Actually, the documentation does suggest shidduch. Nice try, though.

Nickidewbear: Also, she was a Jew from Stakliskes who had Anusi family.
Let me guess, the 'evidence that she was a Jew is that she married somebody you claim was a Jew and the 'evidence' that he was a Jew is that he married somebody you claim was a Jew, right?


You clearly didn't pay attention, did you? This is why I ignore you. You cherrypick evidence for your convenience and then ignore evidence that I bring up, and then tell me that I'm cherrypicking. I'm going to tell you again, whether or not you give a darn, that she had Jewish cousins named Nik and Vil'gel'm, that her cousin Rochla was listed as "Hebrew", that her cousin Shmuil Morgovich died in Stakliskes and that (thus) her birthdate of June 26, 1882 actually checks out, that Jews did not intermarry in those days unless they wanted severe reprecussions, and that people converted "up" and not "down" in those days unless they wanted severe reprecussions (and, in fact, many of the gerim known as Subbotniks themselves became gerim Anusimbecause of that).

Don't expect me to read or respond to your posts in the future. I keep letting you get to me, and to do so is a mistake on my part.


[Updated exchange. By the way, Wigry is not even in the same parish.] Thank you for proving my point, Magdalena.]



ShawnH   ♂Today, 06:28pm     #

Nickidewbear:
It said, ""Mysle ze tak a nawet napewno to sa katolicy no ale tylko tyle znalazlem:)"." Nice try, though.

Nicki, when I put that phrase above (in its entirety) I get the following:

"I think that so even sure these are not Catholics but only so much I found"

Can you translate that for me? It makes no sense whatsoever to me. I wouldn't trust Google Translate as far as I could throw it. Especially if it has any colloquial Polish in it.

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Magdalena  Photos: 1  ♀Today, 06:34pm     #

Nickidewbear:
Actually, it does. I'd hate to be you right now because you're ignoring how far Maćkowa Ruda is from Lipsk and Krasne . If a condition for their freedom was to marry Catholic for their freedom, they were going to do it in an out-of-the-way town where the "rabbi"s would never be the wiser.


Actually, if the certificate is anything to go by, they got married at Wigry (not such a very out-of-the-way place at all):

http://wigry.diecezja.elk.pl/obszar-parafii.html
(area of the Parish - Maćkowa Ruda is included)

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?client=tmpg&de pth=1&hl=en&langpair=pl|en&rurl=translate.google.com&u=http://www .wigry.pro/&usg=ALkJrhgQ08ejbeBelHdDJXgO9ul7ih3UjQ

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lunacy   ♀Today, 07:20pm     #

The problem is that your cousin didn't use any punctuation marks etc., correctly it should look like: "Myślę, że tak, a nawet na pewno to są katolicy, no ale tylko tyle znalazłem". Your cousin (male as I can see) was probably writing too hastily - or was it a quick message on the phone? Classic, sadly too many Polish people don't use punctuation nor Polish characters when writing quickly. Don't trust google translate too much, as Polish is gramatically a very complex language and google just can't translate correctly either from or to Polish (especially long sentences, short or one-word phrases are usually correct).
An experiment for you: translate there this very simple sentence: "Byłam tam z dwiema paniami". [Byłam is a female form of "być"="to be" in a past tense and that sentence means "I was there with two ladies" - where "I" is a woman.] Now copy the result and try to translate that sentence back to Polish. What did you get? Does it look the same as original?

I already saw that google translate has problems with the word "no" in Polish, which is actually untranslatable - it's an informal [common language] pause-word that is often used to emphasize the word/phrase that follows it. The most simple examples: we say "no tak" when we agree with something = we emphasize "tak" (english: yes), we scream "no nie!" in anger or sadness to emphasize "nie" (english: no) when we e.g. see something wrong. We also often keep saying "no... no... no..." when listening to someone and want him/her to continue (it often happens during phone conversations - to make the caller sure we're listening and keeping up with the story).

So, your cousin, male, wrote: "I think that yes, even certainly they are Catholics, but that's all I found" - "no" was to emphasize the fact that it was all he found.

The priest in the certificate - "ksiądz" or "ks." in short - is certainly Christian. If that was a rabbi, a word "rabin" would be used.

I don't want to interfere in this topic too much, but those particular language details are very obvious and simple. Nickidewbear - if you don't have the trust in yourself for the answers you got, why don't you start learning Polish yourself?

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Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 07:38pm  #

lunacy:
The problem is that your cousin didn't use any punctuation marks etc., correctly it should look like: "Myślę, że tak, a nawet na pewno to są katolicy, no ale tylko tyle znalazłem". Your cousin (male as I can see) was probably writing too hastily - or was it a quick message on the phone? Classic, sadly too many Polish people don't use punctuation nor Polish characters when writing quickly. Don't trust google translate too much, as Polish is gramatically a very complex language and google just can't translate correctly either from or to Polish (especially long sentences, short or one-word phrases are usually correct).
An experiment for you: translate there this very simple sentence: "Byłam tam z dwiema paniami". [Byłam is a female form of "być"="to be" in a past tense and that sentence means "I was there with two ladies" - where "I" is a woman.] Now copy the result and try to translate that sentence back to Polish. What did you get? Does it look the same as original?

I already saw that google translate has problems with the word "no" in Polish, which is actually untranslatable - it's an informal [common language] pause-word that is often used to emphasize the word/phrase that follows it. The most simple examples: we say "no tak" when we agree with something = we emphasize "tak" (english: yes), we scream "no nie!" in anger or sadness to emphasize "nie" (english: no) when we e.g. see something wrong. We also often keep saying "no... no... no..." when listening to someone and want him/her to continue (it often happens during phone conversations - to make the caller sure we're listening and keeping up with the story).

So, your cousin, male, wrote: "I think that yes, even certainly they are Catholics, but that's all I found" - "no" was to emphasize the fact that it was all he found.

The priest in the certificate - "ksiądz" or "ks." in short - is certainly Christian. If that was a rabbi, a word "rabin" would be used.

I don't want to interfere in this topic too much, but those particular language details are very obvious and simple. Nickidewbear - if you don't have the trust in yourself for the answers you got, why don't you start learning Polish yourself?


I just wanted to make sure, and I already apologized for what I needed to apologize. I also already said that I accept the certificate. How when I bring up evidence is ignored, but I'm cherrypicked. How convenient.

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lunacy   ♀Today, 07:41pm     #

Wow. You're not cherrypicked by anyone. I just wanted to help and explain the Polish "no", because the sentence written by your cousin caused such a buzz and ShawnH asked for translation.

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Nickidewbear  Photos: 3  ♀Today, 07:53pm  #

lunacy:
Wow. You're not cherrypicked by anyone. I just wanted to help and explain the Polish "no", because the sentence written by your cousin caused such a buzz and ShawnH asked for translation.


Then how come you conveniently ignored that I already apologized, for example? I was very explicit in saying that "I apologize for any point at which I got contentious and went over the line in the way that I raised my question, and I am grateful for the translation." Also, I am cherrypicked. That's very obvious, and I didn't mean by you at all up until this point. I meant by people like Harry. Also, I kept bringing up the Andruleviches, etc., and that was conveniently ignored.